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Autor Thema: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback  (Gelesen 71243 mal)

Elendils Cousin 3. Grades

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Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
« Antwort #165 am: 22. Mai 2017, 17:55 »
I really can't wait for this update, it seems to change around so much of the gameplay that I positively believe all players (even the multiplayer pros) will be noobs again for the first weeks, just trying out all new possibilities.
Not me 8-)

Interesting point about the placement of the breeding and the hunters. In general the spells on the outside (far left or far right) should be either stronger or cheaper than their more central counterpart, because they are obviously at a disadvantage due to not unlocking as many other spells. Yours is a valid argument, though, swapping the two spells makes sense to me.

Julio229

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Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
« Antwort #166 am: 22. Mai 2017, 22:24 »
Great update, Edain Team! At first I wasn't sure if I liked the Pûkel-Men change, but now I must say I like it. The changes definitely make the spellbook more unique! I can't wait to play Rohan with this new changes!

On another note, I'm glad no summon spell was removed, I really like the aspect of Rohan getting help from other peoples through the spellbook.


Odysseus

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Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
« Antwort #167 am: 23. Mai 2017, 01:20 »
I also think the Warhorses and Three Hunters should be switched around. I had this idea some time ago as well, but it seems I forgot to post it. Thanks for reminding me Secret Keeper and good thinking!
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Morwereth

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Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
« Antwort #168 am: 23. Mai 2017, 16:49 »
I'm so happy to see Cured Theoden got some love :D It was something had been asked here long ago. I like new spellbook overall. It is more cavalry orientated and it gives Rohan players some tricks for late game.  (**)

Although it is hard to speak without testing it, just first row concerns me: reworked draft and attack order abilities. If you combine double production farm + draft + cruel taxes you pop up drafted peasants insanely. Plus you can clump other peasants in one place (like how we do for turning them to traitors) and use attack order to draft them. In this case, solid peasant spam will wreck everything. More than it should be able to IMO.

You wanted to divide current draft spell into one defensive and one offensive spell but atm draft costs 2 points and has a long cooldown. Thus players can't always have drafted peasants on the field. With these two new spells, mostly they can.

As I said, I might be wrong since I never played with new spellbook but it is how it looks like to me.


Trapper

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Julio229

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Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
« Antwort #170 am: 30. Mai 2017, 22:52 »
Nothing to point out, great rework of the Dwarves' Spellbook!


kreso

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Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
« Antwort #171 am: 31. Mai 2017, 15:25 »
Nice new spellbook for dwarves
Things I like, Carc's Ravens now are deffensive. Early game Dwarves fight was really strong, horn+ravens.
That "Weapon Art of the Dwarves" spell that is nice fit, it is hard to access, nice little buff for them in LG fight, since they lost ravens and heal in battle.

Things i dont like, that tower summon is very flexible and same is for Undermine. If u get runes and ravens on that and position it well it is really op in both cases, I think tower should be little bit less offensive. So there is my suggestion, make that passive ability (or active) that, every mineshaft get tower upgrade in lvl 2 and some bonus hp. This could deny one more tower, and that we expect to see in edain (less tower), we all dont like to sige citadels or outpost. That scenario often ends with catapult fight. And this will bring some more Undermine in game, Undermine is more skill oriented spell so I vote for it.
« Letzte Änderung: 31. Mai 2017, 17:03 von kreso »
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Garlodur

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Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
« Antwort #172 am: 1. Jun 2017, 18:25 »
Wow, pumped to play the Dwarves too and use their super strong spells when it comes to defending.

I get the feeling that Dwarven buildings will become the hardest to destroy in the entire game, which is definitely accurate to their description as masons and architects. I have two questions about the Ravens though: can they be applied to any building or are Citadels also excluded? And does their building armour buff extend to only the building underneath or all buildings nearby? I get the feeling that it makes Dwarven Outposts impossibly strong, with the buffs of Stonemasons, Ravens, the Runes of Inviolability and Power, and if an army is protecting it, Rallying Call, Final Stand, Rune of Inspiration, Ravens' debuff, and Weapon Art of the Dwarves.

Anyway, all I'm saying is that I hope it's balanced, otherwise it might make the Dwarves strong accross all stages of the game, and much stronger in the late game. Then again, this passed through the first round of Beta-testing so it must be decent. I love the concepts behind so I really wish it doesn't get changed too much, but man the Dwarves will become really epic this way.


So there is my suggestion, make that passive ability (or active) that, every mineshaft get tower upgrade in lvl 2 and some bonus hp. This could deny one more tower, and that we expect to see in edain (less tower), we all dont like to sige citadels or outpost. That scenario often ends with catapult fight.

I actually quite like this suggestion, as it also then diversifies the Dwarven Lone Tower from the Gondor one. And it makes the situation described above slightly less of an issue, as less Towers can be spammed around an outpost.

Another great surprise! ;)

FG15

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Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
« Antwort #173 am: 1. Jun 2017, 20:05 »
Because buildings got their arrow towers at level 3, buildings are designed to get the visual subobjects only at level 3, too. Therefore it isn't possible to give buildings an arrow tower  at level 1.

kreso

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Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
« Antwort #174 am: 1. Jun 2017, 22:34 »
But it is possible to that spell give on active mine extra fast free upgrade of defensive measures? I really dont like towers in middle of fight to flank my archers or something while I still dont have sige in early game or forged blades to destroy that.

There comes Gondor tower too, we need restriction for summoning, that towers need to be defensive not agro. In narrow maps if dwarf get good trade he will always go for that tower and deff from harassing with standard units.

I dont know will next patch give us some nerf to towers but I am tilted about outpost (3 towers) and tower summons. I had 2 troll catapult with angmar and I sieged enemy outpost and I couldnt kill it with catapult because of healing rate. Outpost need to be things to provide more easy win if u are ahead, not a fort for killing mass. It is nice to have well and statue but towers on outpost they dont have real purpose. only if u can send battalion of archers in that could be fine but tower atm are op.

I see things like that, so this all can be wrong in some different perspective. But I played online pvp, on gameranger, and that is my experience.
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Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
« Antwort #175 am: 1. Jun 2017, 23:02 »
It was already said that in the upcoming patch towers will be nerfed and it is also said in the dwarven spellbook update that the lonely tower will be debuffed because the spell was too strong.
That doesn't mean towers aren't useful any more, they are just not as strong as before.

Odysseus

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Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
« Antwort #176 am: 2. Jun 2017, 02:39 »
Yes, we have to see if the tower nerf will have enough impact. Follow up nerfs can always be considered after that.
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FilipGeorg95

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Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
« Antwort #178 am: 2. Jan 2018, 19:10 »
I would like to state something regarding what we have seen in the movies, what we can actually implement in gameplay and some historical facts:

1. The most iconic part of seeing the chariot in the films is when the company members capture it and try to break the lines of enemy orcs. Here you can see that it has 3 levels of the machine: 1 seat for the driver, 1 for the repeater crossbow and possibly 2 more for extra soldiers acting as support. That was shown via the main fantasy style and emphasis of the characters. Before that, when Dain arrived on the hill, we saw very short moment of how actual chariot crew looked. There we saw again the driver as a main component of the war machine companied by other, 2 rotating soldiers acting as additional fighting force beside the machine it self. In terms of battle scenes, the main weapon is the actual device by it self, everything else that comes is extra. The crossbow is also an extra feature that the regular one doesn't have nor the amount of additional troops supporting the vehicle.

2. Now lets get to the gameplay: the main difference between the new looking battlewagon/chariot and the old one is mainly its visual apperiance. That is obvious, from visual look this one suits more to all realms because of the movie implementation but according to me it should not be equal for all 3 realms. So let's get started: the main weapon as stated before is the actual war machine that not only have the pulling power of the rams, but also the sheer weight of the construction and the additional blades will do the work for most of the killing. That is somehow similar to the vanilla, but in terms of usage it should definitely have the stronger impact and thus stronger charge/trample damage which in physics will reflect to higher innertion and pushing forward but after that, slower acceleration in order to gain the needed speed for continuing forward ( even though it has 2 rams, physics is way more complex ). In more precise words: there should exist additional armor back-up in terms of small boost from start of recruitment alongside bonus blade damage for tight masses and pitch battles. What I think should make the diversity is the ownership by the different realms in terms of equipment.

Iron Hills as seen in the WIP sneak peak, should have the option to put battle standards/banners accompanied by two side pike man ( in heavy armor ) in order to represent the iconic look of the movie style chariot. By this meaning the IH chariot will provide military might over the battle field, intimidation to enemies and thus inspiration for allied soldiers. In terms of gameplay this will provide increased leadership bonus, attack bonus and fear resistance. The main goal is to give this defensive realm a unique offensive unit to compensate their high armor-> low attack values and their will to fight against more, numerous odds.

Erebor in other words is War of the Rings true flourishing Dwarven Kingdom respected for it's wealth, wise ruling and proven valor in the past days. Even though they are shown as faction in the mod that favors strong arm instead of armor craft, the chariot should be equipped with a statue similar to the base one. Why ? According to me the statue will represent the highest peak in Dwarven history of founding/retrieving their Lonely Mountain Kingdom after the loss of Kazad-dum and will resemble the might of the King under the Mountain and the unification of the Dwarven might once again. Gameplay wise mounted statue should bring forth to allied soldiers experience bonus, armor buff and protection to nearby heroes since the mounted statue itself represent the strong will to defend the rulers but also strong endeavor in order to protect the chariot that carries it.

Ered Luin as we all know is mostly oriented and bound to it's heroes which rely on uncommon Dwarven war tactics. They are more like guerrilla fighters that regular shield wall infantry. So, I support the idea of giving them the option to have access to the popular repeater crossbow. This will give them 2 unique feelings as a realm: firstly it will strongly correspond to the movie scene were the main characters used that weapon to shoot orcs, wargs and the troll. Secondly it will show that Ered Luin dwarves used intelligence with crafting. From one side you have a "tank" to crush tight lines and from other side you have mobile armored vehicle able to shoot from afar big targets.

3. From historical knowledge most of the antique nations used chariots in order to disrupt battle lines, cause fear and above all to wage psychological warfare with their enemies. The main advantage of a chariot is the terrain. If it not flat, than they are useless. Most of the known empires/states such as Egypt, Persia, Hittites, Chinese, Assyrians, Carthaginians, Indians deployed them as frontal weapon for delivering one-way charge. The main part alongside was a driver somethimes accompanied by one/two side soldiers in forms of archers. spearmen, javelineers. There were moments of developing wheel blades that replaced the other additional soldiers and the chariot was reduced to a single driver.

From that point of view the player will be able to choose weather to stay only with one man driven dwarven war chariot that will act like real life scythe chariot or will choose the possible option depending what faction he has chosen. Also I will suggest an additional equipment that will bound all realms together to their mobile, war creation: supplies. They are race of stubborn miners and fighters that often don't like long term travels so what and ordinary dwarf likes over the most non shinny thing is meat and beer to keep it's stomach full and his axe steady in his arm. So, my point of view is to give the chariot an option to provide health regeneration every 4-5 minutes to nearby allies when not in combat so that they can use logistics and tactical maneuver over their foes. As seen in the new spell book, they have lost the beer healing and strategy wise they too have lack in numbers thus are slow, so why wont we give them something to eat and drink in their true path in Edain ?

Another note that connects real life usage of chariots and further implementation in Edain: in most battles that occurred in antiquity for example: Cunaxa ( 401 BC ), Gaugamela ( 331 BC ), Ipsos ( 301 BC ), Raphia ( 216 BC ) chariots were mainly used for disrupting the enemy lines in one, single massed charge. Most of those chariots were pulled by 2 horses or in some cases 4. They were never meant to engage in prolonged combat. In Edain since it is most logical to have a chariot with 2 rams because in the movie the machine pulled with 6 is fiction. In reality, column position of horse drawn chariots are seen in Royal families parades. Now on the 2 rams: they are indeed better than horses in terms of endurance but when engaged to long weapons should suffer great counter attack. I think that if you try to use them on units with short variation of anti cavalry weapons such as spears ( in Edain for example: "Orc Spearmen" ,"Dunleding Spearmen", "Rivendell Spearmen" ) they should not take big damage since in reality chariots that charged units such as hoplites endured. But in scenarios for massed battle when confronting pikemen in terms of Isegards one, Mordors Minas Morgul Orcs with pikes, Gondorians and even other dwarves, they should be decimated because of the reach of the weapon that confronts them. Sarrisa spear for example was very effective at Gaugamela and later at Hydaspes :) :)

Julio229

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Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
« Antwort #179 am: 4. Apr 2018, 20:49 »
I'd like to give my opìnion about the Dáin rework :P

First of all, about Lord Dáin (Iron Hills), I'd like to say you did an amazing job! I really like the uniqueness of the rage system and how he seems like he will get a temporary mount, which is a thing I had never thought of. He also brings some needed offensive capabilities to the armies of the Iron Hills. I really think he fits a lot with the nature we saw of him in the BOTFA movie, and I'm really eager to play with him!

About King Dáin: I believe this rework is also pretty good, though I would have personally liked him to get at least one capability to increase Erebor's defense. Nevertheless, I think the nature of his abilities will "offset" another of Erebor's weaknesses (speed) anyway, and the Battlewagons summon certainly could be a game-changer in some occasions! He also represents what could be Dáin in his older age fairly well. Still a warrior at heart, but one that has grown to be a wise leader and commander.

And on a different note, about Ring Hero forms: I'd personally like the Ring Hero Lord Dáin's summoned Fortress to remain in the Ring Hero form of him, and I think that for Erebor's King Dáin form, a suggestion like the one made by AulëTheSmith could certainly work pretty well and be unique.

Overall, amazing job, as always!
« Letzte Änderung: 5. Apr 2018, 13:41 von Julio229 »