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General Balance Discussion

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Halbarad:
Sounds interesting and I would be open minded for your suggestions, still I think you have to keep some things in mind
1. We already have many counters to this: Catapults already punish this, every faction has heroes that do that too (Galadriel, Necromancer, Gandalf, Saruman, Witchking/Zaphragor, Eomer, Dain and even Merry, Pippin, Drauglin, Nori at level 10) and as you said there are already some spells like arrow volley, stone volley, Gandalf, ... and also units (Imladris Loremasters, Sorcerers of Angmar, Monsters, ...)
2. Players are forced right now to clumb their units on fortress walls, since units don't split up automatically up there. Also defending your fortress would be much more difficult, since you don't have that much space to run away from such attacks as the enemy does. So defending players would suffer more by these changes and sieges could become more frustrating to defend.
3. I don't like your suggestion for a changed arrow volley. In fact I don't even think that it would help that much against clump, since the players units would have less way to go to run away from it - so the clump just have to move a bit fore- or backward. I do like it the way it is right now, killing Mordor orcs but not Gondor infantry. The damage it gives right now is still punishing the player (and doesn't it kill rangers so it is even more usefull against archer clumps?).
I think the best way would be to make spells/ abilitys/ units, that give low unit damage with middle area of effect (like arrow volley) or middle damage with small aoe (like Eomer spear), while both of them can be reused pretty fast. That way, your enemy can't just split up his units for a second and then go again into clump again. Another idea would be to implement a sickness state: Units that are sick don't get damage themselfes, but damage allied units very close to them (could be looking like poison but yellow instead of green). If your own units can damage near other units of yourself, you are in need to keep them away from each other. This could be added for Sorcerers of Angmar for example.

Smeargollum:
Hello everyone!
This is a very interesting suggestion by Fabian which would improve the gameplay of edain in my opinion.
If every faction would have a reliable aoe damage (not like Eormers spear throw which sometimes just hits a single guy but sometimes kills a lot) and cav would be nerfed the players could split their army in different part to fight for mapcontroll, which would be way more dynamic that it is now, and you couldn’t just clump everything together in a fight, which would increase the micro potential in a battle.
Further I agree with Fabian that it would be probably the best way to find such an aoe damage in the spellbook (like arrow volley, barrage, Rohan cav summon, etc…). But I also think it would fit to units like monsters (trolls, beornings, werewolves, …). If those units would get a higher splash damage with their standard attack but therefor can’t trample units (so they can’t take crush revenge damage from running in pikes because of delay) they would be a great way to implement aoe damage by units. Or as Halbarad already said, sorcerers by Angmar or maybe even loremasters by Imla are a wonderfull units for that purpose :D
And I also think it is important that this kind of anti-clump stuff is available early in the game and not just with a 3k hero (like Gandalf, Saruman, Galadriel …) or a level 10 spellbook power (like the Isen mine, etc.) but by either early powers (like the arrow volley) or units you can get early in the game (like trolls).
So all over I think that such a change would improve the gameplay around the stage of the game where you fight for the mapcontroll (so not in a siege) by a lot. But since sieges are not competitive as I see it that is not a real problem.

Best regards
Smeagollum

Adrigabbro:
Is it by the way engine-wise possible to prevent clumping?

EDIT: The way I see it this is the best solution but it would obviously completely change the dynamics of the game. Many aspects would have to be modified/rebalanced.

Elendils Cousin 3. Grades:
It is technically possible, but the impact on pathfinding is so terrible that clumping is the lesser evil.

tolgayurdal:

--- Zitat von: Adrigabbro am 18. Apr 2020, 15:23 ---Is it by the way engine-wise possible to prevent clumping?

--- Ende Zitat ---

I can confirm that as long as the player becomes problem-solver. Also the contributions are always welcomed upto balance of course.

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