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Autor Thema: General Balance Discussion  (Gelesen 14940 mal)

DrHouse93

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Re: General Balance Discussion
« Antwort #15 am: 9. Mär 2016, 16:29 »
Yes, but they weren't in formation, just in attack stance xD
Furthermore, they were even on top of the walls, which means they should have more range xD

Hamanathnath

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Re: General Balance Discussion
« Antwort #16 am: 9. Mär 2016, 16:39 »
Yes, but they weren't in formation, just in attack stance xD
Furthermore, they were even on top of the walls, which means they should have more range xD
Interesting.  Idk what to tell you then  xD.  I don't think Mordor has anything that improves the Range of their Archers so.....   [uglybunti]

Adrigabbro

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Re: General Balance Discussion
« Antwort #17 am: 9. Mär 2016, 20:19 »
I don't use archers that much right now, but to be fair it has never really been my playstyle. However, I'm quite comfortable with their range, their damage and their usefulness right now. I'm afraid that they might become a little too important if you guys decide to buff their range, kinda like "the first guy who gets archers gets the lead". To sum up: I'm in favor of not changing anything, even concerning short range archers.


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Saeros

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Re: General Balance Discussion
« Antwort #18 am: 9. Mär 2016, 23:47 »
I strongly agree with Hamanathnath, just a copy/paste of his opinion is on my mind  :P
Do you remember that hideous thing in the vanilla game of BFME2, that the archers (and only them) could literally annihilate any strategy if paired with strong heroes? (damn, BFME2 was such an ugly game)
Let's not bring it again...

RagingRemo

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Re: General Balance Discussion
« Antwort #19 am: 9. Apr 2016, 01:33 »
Dear Developers,

I have some balance suggestions for the next patch.

Angmar:
1. Power ability for indestructible buildings is too strong, the duration should be reduced or it needs to be a tier 3 power (6/7 power points cost) or you can only use it for outposts or lone towers (NOT for fortresses).
Why should it be 'nerfed'? Because the dwarves use their Earthquake on a fortress and it will deal no damage to the fortress...
2. The spear units, with that unique passive (25% of the damage taken, would be dealt back), are also to strong. They win against every unit; horses, swordsman, archers, other elite units, heroes and also buildings. They are spear units, so make them strong against monsters and cavalry. Not against heroes and melee units. (balance the passive or basic stats)
3. I am not sure about this one, but some of the Angmar mages have a freeze ability. If you make like 5 of those mages the armies of the
enemy cannot move after casting that ability, like ever. So you just trow some catapults on the freezed army or a poison cloud (tier 4 power) and goodbye army. (not sure if you can actually make 5 of those mages, but if you can... Balance it)

Rohan:
1. I guess you guys already knew the bug... But just saying that the new outpost gives you way to much money.
2. Make it possible to create peasants and upgrade the farm at the same time.
3. Eomer's level 10 ability is absolute SHIT, yay a tiny charge that does 0 damage... I like the idea, but it's trash.

Isengard:
1. A bit lacking in overall performance, the faction is struggling in the early game too much. 8 out of the 10 times they die before they reach the late game.
2. Steel bolds upgrade does not do anything, or too little. Isengard has no real way to kill Ents and have a hard time fighting other archer units.
3. The siege ladders are simply useless. And the bomb is not worth it to use.

Dwarves:
1. Ability to upgrade fortress towers is too strong. It makes towers deal to much damage.
2. The Demolishers deal too much damage to buildings (they easily destroy an elven fortress). Also the Earthquake siege weapons are useless compared to other siege weapons of the dwarves (and price).
3. The Ram riders are to easy to make for the Iron Hills, they do too much for their price.

Mordor:
1. Great job balancing this faction. But there is still one thing that should be buffed.
2. The only thing to complain about are their siege towers. Make them cheaper or increase its health.

Gondor:
1. Balanced.

Elves:
1. Balanced.

TL;DR (conclusion),
- Angmar's indestructible buildings power is to strong, the Elite spear units are to strong, and the freeze of Angmar's mages is to strong.
- Rohan has a bug with the new outpost making to much money, peasants and farm upgrades should be able to be done at the same time, Eomer's level 10 ability it shit.
- Isengard is weak and their bomb is useless.
- The tower upgrade from the Dwarves is over powered and the Dwarves need some balancing in their siege weapons.

This was my paragraph of my thoughts about patch 4.3. (Remember these balance suggestions are based on Player vs Player matches, not against the AI)

I hope you guys agree with some of my suggestions.

RagingRemo

Hamanathnath

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Re: General Balance Discussion
« Antwort #20 am: 23. Mai 2016, 14:06 »
Hello everybody :)

I'm pretty sure I'm not the first to bring up this topic, but Battering Rams are too effective for their cost.  People abused how strong these things are.  Ram Spamming is a very effective tactic because of how cheap, and certain Camps and Castles can't defend against them by themselves.  Unless there is an army in the base your attacking, there doesn't seem to be a point to use nothing but Battering Rams,  because in pretty much every case, no matter how upgraded your base is, Ram Spamming will most likely win you the match, if not Serverly hinder the opponent.  Of course, certain bases can deal with Rams better then others (Gondor and Mordor Castles fully upgraded defensively can kill them quickly), but other that still have to pay a lot of defensive upgrades (Dwarven, Lothlorien, Angmar, Rohan, and Isengard Castles) can't do pretty much any damage to Rams by themselves.

I going to try to post a replay later showing how strong Rams are (though first I gotta get permission from the players that played in the match :P).  In most cases getting like 10 Rams with a few units guarding them is more effective then getting a fully upgraded army , and the Rams are cheaper and do more damage to buildings.  It really seems unfair in my opinion.  And the Battering Rams that should be worse due to their lower price  seem to preform better When Ram Spamming (Rohan, Isengard, and Mordor's Rams specifically).

In my opinion, All battering Rams should take a lot of damage from Upgraded Defenses of every faction.  I find it weird that Fire Arrows deal good damage to Battering Rams, while Upgraded Axe Towers and Buildings upgraded with Silverthorne Arrows do not.  Battering Rams shouldn't be able to solo upgraded Castles by themselves.  Additionally, Battering Rams should also take more damage from un upgraded defenses, though not too much, so that Rohan and Angmar Defenses can at least somewhat deal with this problem.   

I'll try to make another post later with a Replay in hand just to reinforce this point. 
 

-Mandos-

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Re: General Balance Discussion
« Antwort #21 am: 23. Mai 2016, 14:21 »
Please don't nerf rams or buff the bases against them. Rams should be easily countered by all types of melee units and/ or heroes, if they die against the auto defense mechanism of the fortress they are useless. I know that its not very logical that they should be almost immune to arrows/ ranged damage, but it is the only intelligent solution gameplaywise.
If you get destroyed by ram rushes often you should work on your map awareness and keep a unit of swordsmen or two close to your base to defend yourself. Then it will just be a huge investment on your opponents side without gaining anything.
A Túrin Turambar turún' ambartanen!
Túrin, master of doom, by doom mastered!

Hamanathnath

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Re: General Balance Discussion
« Antwort #22 am: 23. Mai 2016, 14:34 »
I'm sorry, but rams shouldn't be able to replace armies.  Even if all the Rams do die, 1 group of Swordsmen won't be able to kill 10 Rams at once before Rams do more damage then they cost.  Even if the Rams just destroy your defensive Towers or your walls, they would make you pay a fortune just to replace all that stuff.  It that really balanced?

Odysseus

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Re: General Balance Discussion
« Antwort #23 am: 23. Mai 2016, 14:40 »
I am thinking that Rams should have the same armour values as the catapults. The first nerf to Rams was good, but rams are stil a bit too beefy for their cost imo. They should have even less health so that they really have to mingle inbetween your troops, or get crushed by cavalry, infantry and heroes.
“For so sworn good or evil an oath may not be broken and it shall pursue oathkeeper and oathbreaker to the world's end.”

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Re: General Balance Discussion
« Antwort #24 am: 23. Mai 2016, 14:49 »
If your enemy has invested like 4000 to 6000 gold for rams you cant expect to beat that with units for 200...
But you should notice that your enemies armies are weaker and smaller than they could be and you should be able to get map control AND defend from the rams - let's be honest, they are destroyed really easy if you got some units and the damage they deal wont harm you that much.
A Túrin Turambar turún' ambartanen!
Túrin, master of doom, by doom mastered!

Odysseus

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Re: General Balance Discussion
« Antwort #25 am: 23. Mai 2016, 15:02 »
You are making it sound like the Rams are unsupported. Rams cost almost no CP, so you can literally get like 15 rams supported by for example orcs. They are dirt cheap and do good damage. When rams are supported, their value skyrockets, especially the quick and cheap rams of Isengard and Mordor. I think two or three patches ago, they received a small armour nerf, which I think was good. What I would like to see myself is Rams that cost 300 given the same armour values as catapults when attacked in melee. The 500 rams are fine imo, since they are slower and easier to hit and more difficult to mingle between the troops. The 300 ones, the cheap ones, they need to die like flies, not survive several hits.
“For so sworn good or evil an oath may not be broken and it shall pursue oathkeeper and oathbreaker to the world's end.”

Hamanathnath

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Re: General Balance Discussion
« Antwort #26 am: 23. Mai 2016, 15:12 »
If your enemy has invested like 4000 to 6000 gold for rams you cant expect to beat that with units for 200...
I'm expecting a base fully equip with Towers, which costs a lot for faction like Dwarves and Gondor, as well as the 1500 cost upgrade that improves all of them, to deal with Battering Rams decently well.  I don't see how that is unreasonable.

Yes certain faction can deal with the Ram Spam with just their base defenses, but most of them, even when fully upgraded, can not.  This is most glaring with the Dwarves, Lothlorien, and Isengard, who all have to pay a lot for these defenses.


Odysseus

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Re: General Balance Discussion
« Antwort #27 am: 23. Mai 2016, 15:46 »
Isengard can get the defensive Warg Pit though, which is good against Rams.
“For so sworn good or evil an oath may not be broken and it shall pursue oathkeeper and oathbreaker to the world's end.”

Hamanathnath

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Re: General Balance Discussion
« Antwort #28 am: 23. Mai 2016, 16:05 »
Isengard can get the defensive Warg Pit though, which is good against Rams.
True, but it won't do enough to actually affect anything.  The Rams would most likely destroy the building before the Warg can even kill 1 Ram. And for decently obvious reasons, having moultiple of those buildings instead of resource buildings will hurt you in the long run.

Elendils Cousin 3. Grades

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Re: General Balance Discussion
« Antwort #29 am: 23. Mai 2016, 17:47 »
I'm 100% with Mandos here that rams don't need a nerf and it was just a case of being outplayed (not trying to be rude, that can happen to anyone)... but I didn't see the replay, of course. So it would be best if you post it, because I certainly won't believe rams overperform when spammed unless there is some sort of proof^^