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Autor Thema: General Balance Discussion  (Gelesen 77707 mal)

The_Necromancer0

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Re: General Balance Discussion
« Antwort #165 am: 23. Aug 2020, 16:34 »
Zitat
-nerfing of the warg century by adding a timer before the next warg spawns

I think the same should be applied to the Dire Wolf expansions of the Angmar Castle, if my memory serves they spawn basically non stop, worse than the spider catapults of 3.8.1

About the fear expansions, I think the cooldowns should be a lot longer, it has always seemed quite short. There is also the option of making it an activatable that the player has to click on (with an even longer cooldown since you get to pick when it activates).
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Le Sournois

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Re: General Balance Discussion
« Antwort #166 am: 8. Nov 2020, 18:57 »
Hello,

My idea here is that pikes in general are too strong when they get heavy armors compared to swordsmen.
Swordsmen vulnerability to archers is 100 %  and when they get heavy armors, it is reduced to 65 % = -35 pts

Pikemen vulnerability to archers is 135 % and when they get heavy armors, it is reduced to 85 % = -50 pts, which is a lot more difference than for swordsmen.

Often in late game, I make a lot more pikemen because it is far easier to manage (moreover they get a better range in their attack, if I'm not mistaken ? so that they are not that bad even against swordsmen)

Above all, a very great and nice change in Edain 4.5.4 included the knight shields to protect the calavry even better against archers (which improves the gameplay in my opinion). But this change has made pikes even better than before because cavalry are even more vulnerable to them even with these shields.

To make up for their bad performance against cavalry, I suggest archers to do 100 % damage instead of 85 % against pikemen with heavy armors, which would make a difference of 35 pts as it is for swordsmen.

I feel that one of the strenghts for swordsmen is their reliability against archers, and that strenght should be emphasized even better when they get heavy armors whereas for pikemen, ennemy archers is supposed to be a weakness and that's not coherent in my opinion that their weakness is turned to a strenght once they get heavy armors.

Another suggestion :

To improve the gameplay even better, I think it would be a good idea to reduce slightly structural damage against heavy armors maybe (130 % instead of 150 %) and also to reduce very slighty the hero damage against heavy armors (140 % instead of 150 %) so that heavy armors would not result too much in a disadvantage as it can be sometimes. And that would make the idea that towers are OP in Edain less true as well.

Thank you


Gnomi

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Re: General Balance Discussion
« Antwort #167 am: 8. Nov 2020, 21:47 »
Hey, just a smalll note on your beginning about the difference:
Zitat
Swordsmen vulnerability to archers is 100 %  and when they get heavy armors, it is reduced to 65 % = -35 pts

Pikemen vulnerability to archers is 135 % and when they get heavy armors, it is reduced to 85 % = -50 pts, which is a lot more difference than for swordsmen.
You did a small mathematical mistake here. You should not talk about explicit numbers and therefore not use subtraction, but about percentage differences and hence use division. Sutractions will look right in the first place, but there will be some errors, which will make these arguments wrong. In reality the difference is marginal - is is 63% for pikes and 65% for swords, so it is basically the same.

Please notice that I do not talk about any problems in particular (and I don't say that your points are wrong) - I just say that your mathematical argument is completely wrong.^^

Le Sournois

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Re: General Balance Discussion
« Antwort #168 am: 11. Nov 2020, 16:52 »
I admit I had not made maths advanced studies :D

Thank you for the complete answer and your correction. There is then not a difference between pikes and swordsmen when they equip heavy armors.

What remains of my point is only that then :
Cavalry is a better counter to swordsmen than swordsmen are to pikes because cavalry can trample and make the ennemy unable to attack back during a short time whereas swordsmen simply attack normally and seem sometimes to be more passive in combat than the pikemen (because of their poor range it seems).

Then archers could be a slightly better counter to fully upgraded pikes

Elendils Cousin 3. Grades

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Re: General Balance Discussion
« Antwort #169 am: 11. Nov 2020, 18:21 »
Cavalry is also twice as expensive as swordsmen. Additionally, pikes also are more vulnerable to archers, which only makes them effective against cavalry - they need to be a harder counter to cavalry to make up for that.

Le Sournois

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Re: General Balance Discussion
« Antwort #170 am: 14. Nov 2020, 10:40 »
Sorry, I have just a little question at last about elemental damage :

As pikes and swordsmen are vulnerable to 100 % to elemental damage,

if an archer do 100 damage, and equip fire arrows against ennemies with heavy armors, does it do :
85+100 = 185 damage against pikemen
65+100=165 against swordsmen

which seems quite negligable a difference, and that's what I thought at the beginning when I wrote my posts.

OR

85*2=170 damage against pikemen
65*2=130 damage against swordsmen

?

Thank you


The_Necromancer0

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Re: General Balance Discussion
« Antwort #171 am: 14. Nov 2020, 10:56 »
Let's take an example using the Edain searcher (great tool btw). We're gonna have a look at the Gondor Archer.

The gondor archer deals 25 PIERCE damage and, when upgraded, an additional 15 FLAME damage.

When that archer fires at a Gondor Soldier they deal:
25*100% + 15*100% = 40 damage

when the soldier has heavy armor it becomes
25*65% + 15*100% = ~31

against gondor pikemen with heavy armor it goes from:
25*135% + 15*100% = ~49 (when they don't have heavy armor)

to
25*85% + 15*100% = ~36 (once upgraded with heavy armor)
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Vladimir

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Re: General Balance Discussion
« Antwort #172 am: 4. Nov 2021, 19:59 »
Hi,

could you please buff Imladris on the map "Mission: Sturm auf das Auenland" (the tower defense map)? Compared to other factions, they are way to weak in the early game and are surely the worst faction. I have played them multiple times now in the early game and they are way way harder to play than other factions. It would be great if you make them viable because their late game is cool (I have never actually made it that far with Imladris but I guess the concept is nice lol).

The main reason why they are so weak is quite easy to fix: Dunedain Swordmen are way to overpriced. They cost 40 gold and have 450 hp and 40 damage. Now compare this to a Gondor Swordman that costs 30, has 400hp and 40 damage as well! So you are actually paying 33% more for the Imladris starting unit to get a 12% increase in HP. But this is not the only disadvantage for Imla...

The second problem is that the early game is all about spamming units to avoid getting flanked because if your troops get flanked, they will die instantly. Since the Dunedain cost 10 gold more, you will always have 3-4 less units on the field in the early game compared to Gondor or other factions, meaning you get flanked more easily. I have tried like 15 runs with Imladris in the early game (with different micro, positioning, etc.), and in only 3 or 4 I actually managed to clean-sweep the first ten waves (by sheer luck due to the enemy not clumping on one guy). And in this game mode it is crucial that you don't miss the gold in the early game, as you need to get that unit spam going, otherwise you don't kill the enemy --> no money --> no troops and more flanking damage.

To summarize, Imladris has two main problems here: 1) Their value in terms of HP per gold is bad, and 2) the higher unit costs results in you having less units on the map which means more flanking damage.

Solutions
A) You increase their health to at least 500, then you are getting a 25% increase in health when paying 33% more (Gondor soldiers as the base line).
B) Or you could decrease their cost to 35: Then you would get a 12% hp increase for a cost increase of 16%, making this more fair.

It would be really really nice if you could just fix this in the next patch because it is such a great gamemode! It shouldn't be such a big deal to change the numbers I think (**)

Edit: Compared to Lorien that also has 40 gold melees, Lorien swordmen at least one-hit most of the early enemy units, so you don't have that flanking-damage problem.
« Letzte Änderung: 4. Nov 2021, 21:21 von Vladimir »