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General Balance Discussion

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-Mandos-:

--- Zitat von: Hamanathnath am 24. Mai 2016, 05:19 --- [...] But I still don't understand why the defensive structures, whose purpose is to defend your base, can't deal with Rams unless they have Fire Arrows. [...]

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That's a mistake you make there. Defensive structures are there to help you beat armies that invade your castle, did you ever try to attack an upgraded castle with an army only? :D
Siege units counter structures, in my opinion even the upgraded versions of defense towers shouldnt deal much damage to rams. If your castle is empty it deserves to fall, missplay by the defensive player.


--- Zitat von: PythonX35 am 24. Mai 2016, 05:31 ---Mordor and Isengard can easily get 10 rams for around 2100-3000 resources which is more than enough to do enough damage maybe even take out an entire castle that is defended...and who ever said anything about taking out rams with 200 resource units?

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Then again, if your enemy, who is not ahead in terms of mapcontrol, has invested only 2000 resources into rams you could get like 5 units of swordsmen for 1000 (depends on the faction but it becomes even easier with Rohan for example) and still have units worth 1000 gold more than your opponent on other points of the map (and you can destroy the rams without casualties which benefits you 1000 gold again).

Hamanathnath:
Well I guess this just comes down to opinion, but the way I see, If I invest a lot of resources into defensive upgrades, they should be able to kill Rams.  And when I say that, I don't mean that the Rams should die so quickly that they aren't able to hit any buildings.  I think the Damage of Upgraded Towers on Battering Rams should be similar to what Gondor/Mordor Upgraded Towers do now. 

Elite KryPtik:
Well this has been an interesting discussion, guess I will throw in my 2 cents.

First, I will say that ram rushing can be a serious problem. You can be on the offensive with map control, killing the enemies outer farms, and he can just ram spam your base and force you to backpedal. Its a cheap and effective tactic, I do think right now that rams overperform for their cost. Especially the 300 ones.

So, in regards to nerfs, I would say that I agree with reducing their movement and attack speed, as necromancer suggested, and increasing their ranged damage against UPGRADED defensive towers to be on par with damage from fire arrows. I cannot understand why upgraded defenses of other factions should deal less against rams then fire arrow defenses, its illogical and unfair for that faction. The rams are fine in health, standard ranged armor and melee armor as far as I am concerned.

Also, something nobody has touched upon, Lothlorien can literally do nothing against a ram rush. Even if they have a horde of swordsmen defending their base, 10-15 rams with some army support WILL get in and destroy the citadel, thereby ending the game in defeat for lorien unless they have an ent moot. I know this is a bug, but it does demonstrate how much damage rams can deal before you are able to kill them. They need some kind of nerf, not necessarily health and armor, but something.

In regards to the Warg Sentry, I suggested a while back that it be moved to the defensive build plots of an Isengard base, and I don't understand why it wasn't. It would be a simple change that would REALLY increase the usefulness of the building. Its in the Isengard suggestions thread somewhere, if you want to read it ;)

But yeah overall I see both sides of the argument and agree to a certain extent with both, so I think the best middle ground is as necromancer said, movement speed and attack speed nerf, combined with taking more damage from upgraded towers.

Fine:

--- Zitat von: Elite KryPtik am 27. Mai 2016, 00:11 ---In regards to the Warg Sentry, I suggested a while back that it be moved to the defensive build plots of an Isengard base, and I don't understand why it wasn't. It would be a simple change that would REALLY increase the usefulness of the building. Its in the Isengard suggestions thread somewhere, if you want to read it ;)
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Yeah, this seems reasonable. If it is do-able (as in if the team can make the sentry fit on the smaller defence plots), then I support this change.

Hamanathnath:

--- Zitat von: Fine am 27. Mai 2016, 10:17 ---
--- Zitat von: Elite KryPtik am 27. Mai 2016, 00:11 ---In regards to the Warg Sentry, I suggested a while back that it be moved to the defensive build plots of an Isengard base, and I don't understand why it wasn't. It would be a simple change that would REALLY increase the usefulness of the building. Its in the Isengard suggestions thread somewhere, if you want to read it ;)
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Yeah, this seems reasonable. If it is do-able (as in if the team can make the sentry fit on the smaller defence plots), then I support this change.

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Pretty much have the same thoughts on the subject.  So +1 :)

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