General Balance Discussion

[Draco100000]

I agree that dealing with rams in lategame isn't so hard, the problem is another. First of all, the ram spam may be extremely effective even on mid game, when you're still building your army, your opponent can send 4 rams on a farm, 4 on another, 4 on another, and so on, therefore drawing your attention and thwarting economy and development, while you have to send your troops in several spots to kill those rams, or even worse, being forced to leave - for example - two swordsmen on a farm, two on another, two on another, and so on, which means a smaller army, fewer CPs and fewer resources

Furthermore, as Elite said (and I agree with him), even in lategame they can deal terrible damage, because they can walk with no problems between troops and smash a lot of buildings before you can make them harmless (the same happens with catapults: what can you do when your opponent has 7-8 of them - or even more - all clumped in the same spot, bombing your base, while his troops just stand around them preventing anyone from destroying them?)

That huge ram spam should mean no armie for your enemie( except mordor) and if so you will have great advantage in the match just destroy the already done rams and attack with few units you will win easily.

About catas it is just a consecuence of loose completely in previous fases. I fyour enemie could do 8 catas measn you didnt had anything more than your base so it obvious you will loose cause lack of map control, unles you go out do a great move and recover the map. each cata use to costr huge amount of money that your enemie only can afford if he has entire map so get better previous stages and you will have a chance.

[Sawman]

Rams hardly cost any cp so if you hid 10 of them in a corner and waited until your enemy leaves his base to attack you, you should still have enough cp space for an army to hold him off and let your rams kill his base and you win easy as that.

Regarding leaving troops in your base to prevent ram spam/rush if you have fully upgraded wall defense's why should you have to leave men guarding your base? Isn't that what wall defense is for? To protect your base? If they cannot do that there is a problem.

 

[-Mandos-]

The wall defenses protect your castle against soldiers. If they would just kill everything (there was a beta where that happened) it would be a) really boring and b) siege weapons wouldnt have any use. They are there to especially counter those auto defenses...

[Sawman]

If you had an army supporting the rams like you should, the wall defenses would have other targets to hit. And how boring would it be if you were to have a fully upgraded army and going to attack your enemy and you lose because your base dies to ram spam. How much fun is that? I don't even see how winning that way is fun. All the things you can do in this mod and you ram spam to beat someone, don't understand it.

[Lord of Mordor]

Seems to me that increasing ram command points would be the most logical solution here without affecting their strength too much. Rams (and catapults, for that matter), were never meant to be units that you send in droves of 10 or 15. Increasing their point costs to 40 or 60 would mean that you'd actually have to think about how many siege weapons and how many field units you want in your army, whereas currently you can get six rams for the point cost of two Gondor soldier bataillons.

[Elite KryPtik]

If you had an army supporting the rams like you should, the wall defenses would have other targets to hit. And how boring would it be if you were to have a fully upgraded army and going to attack your enemy and you lose because your base dies to ram spam. How much fun is that? I don't even see how winning that way is fun. All the things you can do in this mod and you ram spam to beat someone, don't understand it.

^^ This. I can't tell you how many times this has happened to me, where I have clearly outplayed my opponent and won the match just for him to send 5-10 rams into my base and kill me. Upgraded base defenses SHOULD be able to kill rams, because upgraded base defenses still cannot counter a proper catapult siege. Rams are mean to be used to take down outposts and normal settlements, but right now they can level a base easily. Even if its defended by troops they can usually get at least 3-4 buildings before you can kill them all.

EDIT

Seems to me that increasing ram command points would be the most logical solution here without affecting their strength too much. Rams (and catapults, for that matter), were never meant to be units that you send in droves of 10 or 15. Increasing their point costs to 40 or 60 would mean that you'd actually have to think about how many siege weapons and how many field units you want in your army, whereas currently you can get six rams for the point cost of two Gondor soldier bataillons.

That seems fair, I think also a movement speed and attack speed nerf would be good. I don't think they should have lower health or armor because then they could just get shot down, but making them hit buildings a bit slower would help ensure that the defender at least has a chance to target them.

[DrHouse93]

Seems to me that increasing ram command points would be the most logical solution here without affecting their strength too much. Rams (and catapults, for that matter), were never meant to be units that you send in droves of 10 or 15. Increasing their point costs to 40 or 60 would mean that you'd actually have to think about how many siege weapons and how many field units you want in your army, whereas currently you can get six rams for the point cost of two Gondor soldier bataillons.

Agree with that^^

[Hamanathnath]

Seems to me that increasing ram command points would be the most logical solution here without affecting their strength too much. Rams (and catapults, for that matter), were never meant to be units that you send in droves of 10 or 15. Increasing their point costs to 40 or 60 would mean that you'd actually have to think about how many siege weapons and how many field units you want in your army, whereas currently you can get six rams for the point cost of two Gondor soldier bataillons.

I agree with this.

Though if the Upgraded Towers could also deal decent damage to Rams that would be great .  I still find it unfair that Mordor and Gondor Defenses can kill ram spams while other factions can't.

[Elite KryPtik]

Actually Haman, Dwarven Defences do pretty heavy damage to rams once they got forged blades, so their fine. The only problem is Isengard and Lorien. Rohan is obviously fucked because their defenses cannot be upgraded.

[Odysseus]

I'll take any ''nerf''. Feels more like a tweak, I think. It's good, I agree completely with increasing the CP requirement per Ram.

[Sir_Stig]

I support the command point increase and an upgraded tower defence damage increase for steel bolts and silver thorns, especially the silver thorns as Lothlorièn has no outer walls or barricades to slow down rams.
Really, rams should be effective against doors and outposts, I think they tend to outshine most ranged siege due to the fact the can move so easily inside a scrum.
Just my 2 cents though.

[LordDainIronfoot]

CP increase sounds good but I think that Ram main if not only strength should be against Gates and nothing elae. It is not logical nor true for a Ram to hit Stone Walls or Buildings and destroy them and so fast and easy is even less believable! :-)

At least in my eyes! :-)

[FG15]

They can destroy the door of the buildings such that the ram crew can enter and destroy the building from the inside. Else nothing but catapults should damage any structure.

[Darkayah]

And if you say that a Ram can't destroy  stonewalls in the game,  also soldiers with their swords shouldn't do that.
Then we have only catapults to destroy a fortress... but it is not a good solution for a game... Promotes only a very boring siege if you everytime have to wait for catapults to win this battle. 

[Odysseus]

+1 to Darkness.