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Autor Thema: Gondor Balance Discussion  (Gelesen 5155 mal)

Offline PythonX35

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Re: Gondor Balance Discussion
« Antwort #30 am: 18. Sep 2016, 02:37 »
Here are my personal ideas for balancing the Gondor hero line-up.

Aragorn - I think Aragorn's stages 1 and 2 are fine at this time, however his stages 3 and 4 need to be adjusted.  One of the biggest issues I have with Aragorn at this time is that his leadership ability is one of the worst leadership's in the game (if not the worst).  Aragorn is the King of Men and should therefore have a leadership ability that appropriately reflect's his status (especially since you can't get it until he is level 10).

Solution for Stage 3:
  • Replace his ability to mount a horse with a his leadership ability (leadership adjustments discussed below)

Solution for Stage 4:
  • Replace Aragorn's passive leadership with the following: Passively grants fear resistance, and on activation grants nearby allied units 25% damage, 25% armor, and knock back immunity for 30 seconds
  • Revert Aragorn's army of the dead summon back to summoning a single battalion onto the field for a limited duration

Solution for Stage 4 Alternative:
  • Allow Aragorn's leadership to increase the armor buff provided by statues by an additional 25% and increase the duration of the buff to one minute and thirty seconds after they have left the radius of the statue

Solution for Stage 4 Alternative - 2:
  • Replace Aragorn's leadership with a passive leadership that increase's the armor and damage of nearby hero's by 25%

Beregond - I think Beregond is fine as is, however the only potential adjustment would be to swap his cost with Boromir's cost as he is a far more useful hero than Boromir in their current respective states.

Boromir - The main issue with Boromir is that his cost is not reflective of his usefulness.  Here are some different solutions to close the gap on his cost to usefulness ratio.

Solution 1:
  • Increase Boromir's base damage to 350 to match that of other tank heros
  • Increase the radius of his Horn of Gondor ability by 15%
  • Change "Brave Resistance" to the following: Boromir's armor and damage is increased by 100% as well as prevents Boromir from being knocked back

Solution 2:
  • Swap Boromir's cost with Beregond's cost, making Boromir 1100 and Beregond 1800.
  • Allow Boromir to knock back weak enemies with his standard attack

Denethor - I think Denethor only requires minor adjustments at this time.

Solution:
  • Swap Denethor's defensive and aggresive stances so that he summons units faster within a smaller radius on aggressive, and summons units slower with a wider radius on defensive
  • Swap the placement of Blinded Attack Order and Emergency Mobilization
  • Allow units purchased through Emergency Mobilization to purchase upgrades, but at twice the cost instead of preventing them from purchasing upgrades at all

Faramir - I think Faramir is perfectly fine as is, and does not require any adjustments at this time.

Gandalf - The biggest issue with Gandalf is that he is incredibly expensive and doesn't do enough damage to adequately fill the roll of mass slayer for Gondor.  He dies too quickly and his skills do not do enough damage to justify his cost. 

Solution:
  • Increase the damage of all of Gandalf's abilities
  • Allow "Lightning Sword" to deal splash damage
  • Increase Gandalf's health to 4500

Imrahil - I think Imrahil only needs minor adjustments at this time.

Solution:
  • Allow Imrahil's ability "For Honor" to apply to all nearby cavalry

These are my suggestions on how to better balance the Gondor hero line-up, and I can provide reasons for each solution if requested.
« Letzte Änderung: 18. Sep 2016, 21:16 von PythonX35 »

Offline Elite KryPtik

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Re: Gondor Balance Discussion
« Antwort #31 am: 18. Sep 2016, 05:11 »
I agree with all of your points, except on Boromir.

I would say that what Boromir needs is better tank abilities to enhance his role as a tank. Here are my ideas:

Final Stand: Make this ability activate when Boromir is at 5% health, giving him a temporary 999% armor boost, while keeping him in control of the player. In addition, this ability should become stronger incrementally at levels 3, 5, 7 and 10, making the debuff last longer and making the armor boost last longer. If these changes were implemented, Boromir would become incredibly resistant to damage for a short time, while also still being attackable, due to not being invulnerable. This would force enemies to fight him and suffer a nasty debuff, or run. I will also note that Gondor is 1 of only 2 factions who have no means of debuffing their enemies, which hurts them terribly late game against most factions.

Horn of Gondor: This ability is underwhelming to say the least. With the sheer amount of fear resistance in the game, it becomes utterly useless after 10 minutes in the game. My suggestions would be to decrease the cooldown of this and all other stun fear effect abilities to 30 seconds to counteract temporary fear resistance buffs. It also needs an additional effect so that it can be somewhat useful after the enemy gets a fear resistance source, so cause it to also slow enemies down, maybe halve their speed.

Brave Resistance: I'm ok with this being a straight armor buff for Boromir, it should not give any damage. I, however, have a different idea. This could be a passive ability, similar to Celeborn's, where the more surrounded by enemy troops Boromir is, the more armor he gains. Starting at 25 troops he gains 50% armor, and then 25% more for every 25 enemies up to 500, for a total of 525% max if 500 enemy troops or more are nearby. This would represent him fighting against huge amounts of Uruk-hai in defense of the hobbits quite nicely I think.

I have no issue with Boromir's 2 other abilities, but the first 3 definitely need some more oomph to make them better.
« Letzte Änderung: 18. Sep 2016, 05:14 von Elite KryPtik »
Arise! Arise, Riders of Theoden! Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter! Spear shall be shaken! Shield shall be splintered! A sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now! Ride now! Ride, ride to ruin, and the worlds ending! FORTH EORLINGAS!

Offline Hamanathnath

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Re: Gondor Balance Discussion
« Antwort #32 am: 19. Sep 2016, 14:13 »
A lot of great ideas here.  Just a few thoughts:

Completely agree with improving Aragorn's Leadership.  Right now, it's one of the worst leaderships in the game.  Either making it last much longer or making it a Hero leadership would be great.

I agree with making Boromir's Last Stand better, though my opnion on that ability is the same as before.  I also agree with buffing Horn of Gondor in some way, but..... Well, I'll make a seperate post about that later, if I got time anyways.

Everything for Denethor, Imrahil, and Gandalf (besides maybe Lightning Sword having splash damage) I also completely agree with.  So +1 for all those ideas.

Offline DrHouse93

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Re: Gondor Balance Discussion
« Antwort #33 am: 19. Sep 2016, 17:22 »
I agree on improving Aragorn's leadership. Maybe adding a secondary active effects which increases damage of nearby units, similar to Glorious Charge?

Agree also about Gandalf's health and damage of his spells

I'm quite fine about Denethor, but mainly because I've never used Emergency Mobilization

I like Elite's ideas about Boromir^^
"Fairies are bad. I had to kill an innocent and fight my own sister to save the world, and they looked at me disgusted and left me dying. Two years later, I was revived and had to sacrifice another innocent with a Dark Ritual to save the world again. That's why I became a Succubus. And I don't regret it"
- The Khaleesi, Queen of Apocalypse and of the Succubi

Offline Isilendil

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Re: Gondor Balance Discussion
« Antwort #34 am: 12. Nov 2016, 14:39 »
Nobody use basic archers. Why? Because the archery building is required for them recruitment making them less practical to use. Such problem can be solved by allowing archers to be recruited in barracks and moving flaming arrows to blacksmith or Faramir's camp.

Denethor can strike from afar by summoning melee guards which is an overwhelming threat to any catapults or archers due to the guards appear instantly near them. OP

Offline kmogon

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Re: Gondor Balance Discussion
« Antwort #35 am: 12. Nov 2016, 18:16 »
Nobody use basic archers. Why? Because the archery building is required for them recruitment making them less practical to use. Such problem can be solved by allowing archers to be recruited in barracks and moving flaming arrows to blacksmith or Faramir's camp.

I prefer them rather than ithilien rangers - you can equip them with heavy armor, they have equal amount of heath points and thanks to their number they have better chance to survive calavary charge ( not counting that they are cheaper both in resources and command points. Another reason that they have their own building is that gondor have nine plots and player still should choose carefully wchich building to construct. Without archery range it would make worst.

Offline Gandalf7000

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Re: Gondor Balance Discussion
« Antwort #36 am: 12. Nov 2016, 19:11 »
Nobody use basic archers.
I disagree. I use them because they are good at defending Castle walls and gates on Castle maps.

Offline Mogat

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Re: Gondor Balance Discussion
« Antwort #37 am: 12. Nov 2016, 20:14 »
In competative play no good player uses basic archers with Gondor, Isil is right in this regard.
Denethor is indeed a little too strong, but I am sure that the testers and the team are well aware of that and will fix it in the next patch.
« Letzte Änderung: 12. Nov 2016, 20:18 von Mogat »


Cogito, ergo sum

Online -DJANGO-

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Re: Gondor Balance Discussion
« Antwort #38 am: 12. Nov 2016, 20:34 »
Good points overall. Agree that Gondor should have to decide carefully which building to construct, due to 9 buildplots. However i agree with Mogat that in the current version 4.4.1 the archery building looses against stables (or one more Eco building for price-reduction) in terms of usefulnes.
I really don't like that Gondor is often played with Gondor Sword Spam. In my opinion Gondor should have a mix of standard units (EG/MG), due to their role as "Allrounder-Faction".
However i can tell you, that Gondor standard archers will most likely be more viable in the next version, because of the upcoming changes. Little hint: their formation will play a role...

Offline koh11

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Re: Gondor Balance Discussion
« Antwort #39 am: 27. Nov 2016, 00:19 »
In the new version is Gandalf getting any changes or is he still being left as underwhelming. Its quite disheartening personally speaking try to play Gondor when Gandy's so underwhelming for how iconic he is.

Offline Tirano

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Re: Gondor Balance Discussion
« Antwort #40 am: 28. Nov 2016, 17:29 »
agree with gandalft and with islendil, i think the archery need something else, actually is the most poor building of gondor, I dont know how make it better maybe when u put the fire arrows upgrade allow the building to habe fire arrows so u can use this instead of a tower, i dont know...

Offline Walküre

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Re: Gondor Balance Discussion
« Antwort #41 am: 28. Nov 2016, 19:55 »
In the new version is Gandalf getting any changes or is he still being left as underwhelming. Its quite disheartening personally speaking try to play Gondor when Gandy's so underwhelming for how iconic he is.

Yes, Gandalf will receive a boost  :)

Since the mechanics of the game change radically in the next patch, he will kind of retrieve his past iconic strength (as the most recognisable hero of BFME1). His conceptual design shall remain unaltered though, because it's extremely iconic (as you pointed out yourself).

Offline koh11

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Re: Gondor Balance Discussion
« Antwort #42 am: 2. Dez 2016, 00:54 »
Thank you. Keep up the great work and I can't wait for the new patch if its as you say. :D

Offline Walküre

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Re: Gondor Balance Discussion
« Antwort #43 am: 2. Dez 2016, 07:23 »
Thank you. Keep up the great work and I can't wait for the new patch if its as you say. :D

Thank you for appreciating all of this. I can't obviously reveal anything, but you just need to know that all these changes are pieces of a wider grand design, which will exactly constitute the core of the new revolutionary patch. I'm quite sure that your hopes won't be let down  ;)

Offline calixoxx

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Re: Gondor Balance Discussion
« Antwort #44 am: 12. Jan 2017, 03:06 »
Some things I have noticed about Gondor:

. Basic archers are worthless competitively, totally agree with everyone else. What makes it worse is Ithilians not being strong late game unless you take up a precious build plot with an archery range you will never use and only keep for flaming arrows.

. Disagree that Denethor is OP, I think he actually is a good counter to basic 'camp and seige' that we see occur a LOT in competitive: people will literally sit outside your base with a fully upgraded army but not attack, only with 2-4 protected siege machines. I will say though that I never use his mobilization power because I rarely want to invest 200+ to spam units that can't be upgraded.

. Gandalf definitely needs the buff to health and/or armor. And agree his lightning needs splash.

. Aragorn needs something- it could be the buff for heros discussed, or it could be a debuff for enemies which Gondor definitely does need. Also agree that his AOD power should not be a ring around him- it's useless unless surrounded by enemies and still leaves him vulnerable to hero killers. I would like a single free unit of AOD as well. Right now Aragorn is not worth 2500, he also dies very easily it seems.

. Boromir needs a rework of his abilities but I think he could be worth his current price with the right modifications. I don't know if it's possible, but I would love the horn power to supersede fear resistance but I am unsure if this is possible or not. At the very least, totally agree it's range needs an increase. Also totally agree that fear-causing abilities are very rarely effective late game with different buffs for nearly every faction, and this renders Boro's horn useless often.

Overall, Gondor is sorely ineffective late game. The buffs are not enough, and the debuffs are nonexistent. The spells are also challenging- AOD is extremely difficult to place in most situations to even summon it due to many map layouts, and once you do summon, it takes forever for it to actually show up. by which time most armies have seen it/heard it and run away from it. The AOD units are too slow to catch many units and then you end up wasting the power.