Hi, I’m a big fan edain and regularly play competitive 1v1s against some of the best players.
Before I start my discussion I’d just like to say how impressive it is that the edain team has created such an interesting and (although with some significant exceptions) balanced mod. You guys have created (imo) one of the best rts games in your spare time and given it away for free.
Any criticisms I make are aimed at improving the multiplayer experience to increase the player base and longevity of the mod.
This post includes some quite in depth discussion. I did so in the hope that casual players can understand where I’m coming from and join the discussion too. I hope it doesn’t seem as if I’m going over stuff you already know.
Gondor Cavalry
For my first post, I’d like to discuss Gondor cavalry, specifically their alternate formation. Whilst this is by no means the most significant balance issue, I’d like to talk about it because I think it hasn’t had the attention it deserves. What’s more, I think this subject is interesting because it highlights many aspects of 1v1 play. My explanation is not only a simple 1 cav vs 1 pike scenario but considers the dynamics of an entire match.
The number one issue for me is the +35% armor vs pikes granted by the alternate formation.
Early game battles and 1 Cav vs 1 PikeIn the early game when considering simple clashes of armies, the formation boost to armor doesn’t have much of an affect. When fighting factions with weak early game pikes, such as lorien, the boost in armor IS enough to kill a single upgraded pike (without trample revenge). However, this has little effect on the overall game because:
1. Gondor cav is significantly more expensive than pike units in the early game and will lose in 2v1 scenario
2. Factions with weak/no early game pikes have strengths elsewhere (e.g. lorien’s archers and isengards anti-cav wargs)
Harassing and map controlThis is the area in which I think the formation becomes too powerful.
When playing competitively it is paramount to wrestle for map control. If you allow your opponent to occupy most outside farms he will have a superior economy which will be invested into his army = gg 4u. Wrestling for map control consists of direct attacks to your enemy’s army, harassing his farms and defending your own. The most effective way of harassing your enemy is to split your army and hit multiple farms at once, making it more difficult for your enemy to defend all at once.
Cavalry in general is very effective in 1v1 matches because it is so good for securing map control. Having cavalry on the field stops your enemy harassing your farms with unprotected sword battalions, because your cavalry can zip all over the map quickly and run them over. Therefore, once cavalry hits the field your enemy must harass with at least 1 pike unit.
By midgame you can easily have 2-3 battalions of cavalry. With other factions 1-2 pike units are enough to counter cavalry and continue the harassment. This is not the case vs Gondor because of their formation. 2-3 gondor cav can deal with 1-2 pikes (unupgraded) by stopping before trample and switching to formation and surrounding the enemy. One battalion can tank the dmg whilst the others inflict flank dmg.
You NEED map control so the enemy is forced to commit more pike units to the harassment. By committing these units to the flanks your enemy weakens their armies over the map, especially in the centre. Moreover, such a heavy investment in pikes by your enemy increase the relative power of your infantry army, as swords are the direct counter to pikes.
Upgrades and buffsForge bladesForge blades do a lot to counter the problem of gondor cav because of the additional dmg pikes get to cavalry and monsters. So, rushing for forge blades is an effective counter to gondor cav’s strength vs pikes.
However, forge blades on cav increase dmg to structures significantly increasing your ability to harass your enemy. So, any gains can quickly be lost by constant, quick cav harassment.
Additional armour in mid/late gameGondor cav, (which is tanky by default) can receive all the usual upgrades to improve their armour and survivability (heavy armour, banner carriers horse shields – and additional +25% armour vs pikes).
This in combination with buffs from heroes, 30% from Boromir and Faramir, denethor buffs and heroic statues means that Gondor cav can still stand up reasonably well to upgraded pikes, so long as they are not outnumbered.
All this means is that it is very difficult for your enemy to get and maintain map control on the flanks when playing against Gondor cav. This problem is further exacerbated by the fact that Gondor can buff their farms through the market place (+30% production).
In the late-game I will often have 4-5 or sometimes even 6 battalions of Gondor cav, the more you have the better – your opponent must invest more are more into their harassing armies (up to a point, you need infantry too!)
Therefore Gondor’s cavalry more than any other faction can grab and maintain map control very easily,
Countering Gondor cavYou either must invest very heavily in flanking armies to harass your enemy on the flanks, thereby weakening your presence in the centre of the map OR concede the flanks in favour of keeping your entire army in the centre of the map and going for a quick outpost. To make it clear, it MUST be one or the other because any stray unit too far from your army will be killed if the cav sees it.
Either way your pretty buggered. Even if you do go for centre/ outpost route you will have a significantly lower economy. Your outpost still won’t be safe either as it can be rushed by the cav and infantry armies. The cav can attack your outpost buildings whilst suffering minimal dmg even vs pikes bcs of their formation.
Anti-cavalry cavalry is a really nice and interesting idea. Wargs can do significant dmg to a gondor cavalry rush bcs of their howl ability (makes them faster than cav and +50% dmg), the fact that they have lower CP values and the bcs gondors formation has no effective on cav. However, this counter is limited to only a few factions. Once upgraded gondor cav is pretty decent against anti-cav cavalry anyway because of their shear tanky-ness.
There are a few somewhat solid counter I can think of:
1. going for quick upgrades on elite pikes (tower-guards, Mirkwood pikes, carn-dum pikes, imla pikes). However, this isn’t easy when you are constantly being harassed by infantry and cav.
2.Cavalry archers are another interesting choice, particularly the elk riders due to their knockback.
3.Similarly, having an equal number of beorn bears to cav ratio is an effective counter because of their knockback but they are vulnerable to flank dmg if outnumbered and suffer from a lack of upgrades in the mid/late game.
4. Probably most important, spells that knock-down slow or freeze the cav, so that you can try to catch it when it is outnumbered.
ConclusionAll this post I have been talking about how well Gondor cavalry can stand up to their direct counters but you also have to consider their innate effective-ness against everything else (the role of any cav - to counter swords archers and buildings). The end result is a cavalry army that is extremely hard to kill even with direct counters that can deliver game-deciding damage.
Essentially, the formation switch has no disadvantage:
The switch is instantaneous so if you need the speed back to escape you get it straight away. If you are losing you can run (if you are winning you can reduce casualties with the switch – no risk). If you are outnumbered or your enemy power buffs/debuffs on one side of the map – so what? You can just switch stances and run to the other side of the map to harass then send some infantry to stop their harass.
The same argument could be made for gondor soldier’s armour/speed trade off. However, it is nowhere near as significant, bcs of their base speed. If gondor soldiers had the same bse speed as cav their stance change would be significantly better – again bcs you can’t catch them but they can buff if winning.
To be clear, Gondor cav is not op in the same sense as haldir’s arrow or thorin iii where getting them and exploiting them is very easy and can really break balance without much effort. To exploit this imbalance is quite difficult and requires good micro and will be countered if your opponent is significantly better. However, between equal players Gondor cav can really break balance if used correctly. Gondor cav (unlike thorin the iii 😝) isn’t capable of winning the battle alone, you need infantry and heroes too.
The solutions I see to the problem are:
1. Simply scrap the armour boost to pikes – the gondor cav will still benefit from all other armour boost and will still be tanky af but more vulnerable to their direct counter. Allowing a few pikes to do the job of harassing without the worry of instantly losing them.
2. Have a transition period between formation swaps, so that the cav can be ‘caught’ by pikes
3. Some may think this is too far but I like the idea of increase armour vs sword but decreased vs pikes when in formation, this way it will be easier to counter attacks on buildings but the enemy will also be punished if they forget to protect with pikes.
As we move into 4.5 I see this problem only getting worse because:
1. Formations of gondor give +20% dmg and armour global
2. Towers are getting nerfed – even easier to kill enemy buildings including resource buildings in main camps without walls (Mordor, Isen).
This formation is not super op in a vacuum, but when everything else is considered it quickly spirals out of control - all Gondor’s buffs to armour, denethor’s dmg buffs, buff to eco and cavalries innate speed and effectiveness in 1v1s.
Thanks for reading, I look forward to peoples feedback.