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Gondor Balance Discussion

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koh11:

--- Zitat von: Goodfella am  8. Mär 2017, 17:32 ---This is part of the problem of having a battalion based army: the only real damage is killing an entire battalion. The pikes may kill half the battalion or even the majority but if one individual survives it is irrelevant. Imagine if it were a game like starcraft where the units are individuals, killing 6 of them would be a monetary loss but in this they regenerate for free. And expensive units like gondor cav regen just the same as cheap units like lorien pikes. How do you solve that problem other than increasing the dmg from pikes to cav battalions (not just individuals) to the point where charging into pikes gives a significant risk of losing entire battalions?

--- Ende Zitat ---

You make an excellent point. Why can't how healing works on Battalions be changed? From your post it seems how healing currently works is what makes the situation worse as its easier to re compensate even when you make a mistake with expensive unit.

I guess a proposal would be something like healing only heals your units to full health rather than re-spawning them when you are near a healing well? Or even an option to retrain a battalion for resources rather than the healing well or banner carriers just re-spawning them.

Captain Jin:
What if we increase the damage Gondor Knights receive from archers by about 30% and make Gondor Cavalry Shields reduce bow damage by 40%, replacing pike resistance?

Knocks out two birds with one stone, I think. Cavalry micro is aimed for archers, resource buildings, and isolated swordsmen as you said. Archers can usually get a volley off in attack-move before they are ran down, so simply increase said damage to where it may inflict a loss or two on the unit. Would also make protecting resource building a bit easier if you can send archers without worrying they'll get entirely destroyed. And while I'm not sure of the general opinion, I rarely ever get cavalry shields, as I don't often plan on sending my cavalry to charge into pikes (as strong as their resistances are). This change would make cavalry shields that much more attractive as an upgrade, fitting with Gondor's general play-style.

-DJANGO-:
This argument seems reasoned. Gondor Knights cost 800, thus have also relatively hight default HP, plus the amor upgrade (which is already a good choice against archer damage). Making them a bit more vulnerable in their default setting against archer damage should therefore be fair.
Since the formation gives them already a buff against pikes, it makes only sense that their second counter (archers) gets a little better against Knights. Furthermore it would fit, that the late Upgrade "Cavalery Shields" on the other hand counteracts this second counter at last and not intensify their strength against pikes even more.
Your suggested values -30 % amor against archer damage in default setting but +40 % amor against archer damage through "Cavalery Shields" are in my opinion fine.
On paper that would give them at last +10% amor against archer damage - the Amor Upgrade not included.

Big F:
This is the Gondor subsection of my gameplay & balance post over at the general balance discussion thread.

Like Goodfella argued a 3 years ago, the Gondor Knights formation should not buff against pikes. While i like that elite cavalry forces out elite pikes, gondor knights suppress any army splitting since 3 or 4 of them crush any army with 3 or 4 standard pikes and then go home to heal back up.

Also Gondor's central spell seem extremely strong.

The_Necromancer0:
I wanted to talk a bit about Rebuild. I find that this spell lacks any counterplay, you just drop it on a building, the building is fully healed and there's nothing the enemy can do about it.

I think Rebuild should be a heal over time that starts slowly and then ramps up over something like ~30 seconds. This would remove the last minute "save" that is often seen where a building goes from red health to fully healed and it would also telegraph your action to the enemy ahead of time. I imagine a visual indicator that the building is being repaired, so the enemy can decide based on their perceived strength, will they have enough damage to destroy the building before the healing ramps up?

This also opens up room for baiting, similarly to the way that you can bait a Man the Towers from a level 3 eco-building. The enemy can fake an attack on a precious building and pull back as soon as the repair is dropped, wasting the spell. In a way, this could also be seen as a buff, as a heal over time that means there's a chance for the heal to heal more than the max health of a building.

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