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Rohan Balance Discussion

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-DJANGO-:
Agree  ;)

Elite KryPtik:
I think personally that Theoden has enough support powers already, the issue I have is with the health-cost ratio. Also guys, I was aiming for the high health amount, so 5500 for level 1, I just forgot the exact number, my bad :P

The difference between heroes like Gandalf/Saruman and Theoden is that they can get in, use their powers and get out, having done all they need to. For Theoden to work, he has to be in actual battle along with your army, which means that for the entire fight he will probably end up being on defensive mode in the back instead of fighting up front, as he should be. Yeah, he is hard to catch, but oftentimes he dies so quickly you don't even get a chance to mount him up. You can be off doing something else while he fights in a battle you know is won, and somebody snipes him in about 5 seconds just to make you lose 2800. Its brutal, and really annoying.

Its really unusual that Theoden, who should be leading his armies into battle, has to stay in the very back of the army, lest he be slaughtered by almost any other hero. I think its really foolish to have the literal leader of the faction have health points on the same level as Wulfgar, Gamling or Beregond. At the very least I would push for a health buff to the standard category, so 4500 on level 1, and then a price decrease to 2400 to match it. Also, don't forget, some heroes are Hybrids, who have things like hero killer damage and tank health, such as Thorin Oakenshield, who costs LESS than Theoden.

I really liked your support ideas, and also I'm not sure that the experience power is actually working properly, they have never seemed to gain that much experience even in big army clashes while using the ability. If somebody wants to test over the weekend just let me know :) If I was going to replace any ability though, it would be the King's Herald power he has. By the time you have him leveled high enough to unlock the ability, you have a big army in 1 location that you are rarely if ever going to split apart from him, making the herald essentially useless. So that would be the power I would move to have changed, unless something changed without me knowing and the herald now gives leadership on top of Theoden.

Glad to have the discussion going, lets keep it up :D

Odysseus:
Hmm, I feel Kryptik makes solid points though. I wonder if we can strike middle ground somewhere. He could have the health pool of a tank, because people talk about his abilities and compare him to the likes of Saruman and especially Gandalf because of the share in horse mechanics, but on the other side of the coin, Elendil did say that the lower HP pool is to justify such destructive abilities. My question is though, does Theoden have these? Is the comparison really even fair?

I agree with Elite that Theoden should be getting into fights, leading his army from the front. Besides, I don't think it will matter too much. Theoden's only option for survivability is his level 10 power and horse, but his primary purpose is of course his unique leadership. He has no real tank powers like Boromir or Hama that reduce incoming damage greatly. We could perhaps also just tweak his health scaling per level, so that remains a bit fragile early, but benefits even more from levelling than other heroes do. At best, he becomes worth his price tag, at worst, he takes 1-2 more hits to kill.

Any thoughts on this?

On a side note, I think the design behind the herald is interesting and on paper greatly promotes the management of leadership on multiple flanks or fronts for that matter. In practice, unfortunately, it is usually not the case. The transition of mid to late game is usually marked by each faction having accumulated enough strength to create their own blobs of death and bounce them against each other to see who comes on top. And at the same time, I feel the ability is a bit awkward in his kit. It feels like he has two leaderships that basically do the same thing. Might just be me though.

Morwereth:
I don't agree with reducing price of him instead, Theoden is the faction leader and ring hero so his price should be similar with other faction leaders.


--- Zitat von: Odysseus am 19. Aug 2016, 03:44 ---
I agree with Elite that Theoden should be getting into fights, leading his army from the front. Besides, I don't think it will matter too much. Theoden's only option for survivability is his level 10 power and horse, but his primary purpose is of course his unique leadership. He has no real tank powers like Boromir or Hama that reduce incoming damage greatly. We could perhaps also just tweak his health scaling per level, so that remains a bit fragile early, but benefits even more from levelling than other heroes do. At best, he becomes for his price tag, at worst, he takes 1-2 more hits to kill.

Any thoughts on this?

On a side note, I think the design behind the herald is interesting and on paper greatly promotes the management of leadership on multiple flanks or fronts for that matter. In practice, unfortunately, it is usually not the case. The transition of mid to late game is usually marked by each faction having accumulated enough strength to create their own blobs of death and bounce them against each other to see who comes on top. And at the same time, I feel the ability is a bit awkward in his kit. It feels like he has two leaderships that basically do the same thing. Might just be me though.

--- Ende Zitat ---

About Gandalf, he is a mass slayer and has also hero killer abilities. Moreover, Gandalf the Challenge Master is the one of most useful ring hero in the mod. It makes sense Gandalf starts with 3500 hp.

Theoden is only unit and hero (due to his leadership and exp boost) supporter. He loses armor and speed when he uses the ring. He levels up quite slowly. I can't see any reason why he starts with 3500 hp like Gandalf.

It would be fair if Theoden started 4500 hp (at least) like standard heroes. I also suggest making him level up faster. If he gets some experience from other unit's kills and gets hp boost probably he will be worth 2800.

Theoden's Herald is quite situational. I don't see someone uses it in online matches but it can be extremely useful if you split some cavalry with herald and harass enemy. Also it is bugged (at least on me :D) so you can't summon it on horse right now. The problem I see in herald is he is a bit squishy and situational. Mostly people prefer fully pushing other player instead of splitting army and harassing.

Julio229:
Playing against Rohan I've noticed their siege weapons should have less health/are too strong. It makes no sense that playing as Imladris I've more difficulties destroying Rohan's siege units than Isengard's siege units (When it should be the opposite, in my opinion). It also doesn't help that Rohan's AI is probably the most difficult to play against, and having fully upgraded Imladris warriors struggling to destroy a single Rohan battering ram doesn't make a lot of sense.

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