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Mordor Balance Discussion

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-DJANGO-:
Yes you we might be right for saying Mordor has atM not really a Chance against Angmar. But you all have to remember Angmars is the New Faction here. Same thing was with Isengard when they were released. They got their Nerf-patches (and not only 1)...


--- Zitat ---I'd still have to think of ways Mordor can be buffed to counter this, without making them as strong as some previous patches.
--- Ende Zitat ---
Don't know if this is only related to the Wights. If Yes, u can counter them with Mordor. Firearrows, Cirith Ungol Bow Men, Nazugls. If No: Pls people stop comparing Angmar only to Mordor and try to change Mordor, instead of Angmar.

As LoM said:
--- Zitat ---Mordor especially should be tested in 1v1 games against older factions like Gondor before coming to early conclusions
--- Ende Zitat ---

Yes, many too strong things of Angmar are effecting especially Mordor, because they are a Spam-Faction: i.e. the fact, that Angmar has 2 Mass-Slayer-Heros (Zahragor & Witchking + Mass-slayer units like Wights and Witchers. An other thing, that makes Angmar in my opinion strong, not only against Mordor, is the fact that they can have very quick everything mentioned: quick Carn-Dum is probably the toughest effect. Maybe Angmar does not depend (does not need) on early Carn Dum, to cope with every faction in EG/MG, what do yall thing on this? (Would belong to Angmar Thread).

Hamanathnath:
I'm pretty sure it is just outright impossible to have Fire Arrows, Archers to get said Fire Arrows, Black Uruk Archers, and Nazgul (preferably more then 1) before Angmar gets Wights out, which is generally around Mid-Game, assuming the Angmar player doesn't rush for them.  Angmar will most likely have a decent size Army of Carn Dum units and a good group of heroes before Mordor has all this.  And don't forget Angmar Spellbook is incredibly useful at de buffing and disrupting enemy units, and they will most likely have Dark Obliesk, The Orc Summon, at either Fell Wind or Frozen Land by this point.  I'm sorry, but this just doesn't seem possible for Mordor to win. 

Also, Nazgul aren't really a counter to Wights.  If the Nazgul tries to attack the Wight while on his Horse, the a Pike Unit or 2 can kill him.  If the Nazgul tries on Foot, then while he is attacking the Wights, there could be a Hero or 2 attacking the Nazgul. And retreating would be hard because of Angmar's crowd control options, such as Fell Wind or Frozen Land.

The way I see it, no other faction has this sort of problem against Angmar.  If Mordor doesn't control the map in the early stages of the game, a well played Angmar will be nearly impossible to stop.  But yes, Lord of Mordor is right, we do need to test Mordor against other factions before saying that they need buffs. 

Odysseus:
Well, the only way I see to reduce the timing impact of the Men Carn-Dûm is by lowering the amount of experience tribute carts give to the Hall of the King's men, so that for level 2 you require 2-3 carts, and for level 3, 3 to 4 carts and adjusting spawn time and resource grant accordingly etc. Although this is the wrong topic for that.

We should take this discussion to the Angmar Balance Discussion in my opinion. Mordor got a 10% nerf to free orc damage, and Cirith Ungol went from 600 to 800. I don't see how these changes suddenly made Mordor's matchups impossible. Even if this was reverted, Angmar would still dominate Mordor. If anything, trolls were buffed, which is great and I would say that Mordor was buffed in a different aspect.

Hamanathnath:
Those were not the only changes.  Nazgul trample damage and deceleration has been nerfed drastically (A good change, but still hinder Mordor all the same), Nazgul also cost more (another good change in my opinion), Black Uruks can't receive a discount anymore (a logical change), and Mordor lost Barricade (not a great change in my opinion, but I plan on talking about that later).  That is a lot of nerfs.  Also remember that other factions were buffed or completely reworked with the patches.  None of them got as many nerfs as Mordor.

I do think this is more Mordor's problem then Angmar's problem.  Other Factions have a much better chance at killing Wights because of their outright stronger infantry.  Angmar just got a lot of nerfs that balanced them out with most of the other factions, or at least made it a lot closer.  More testing needs to be done, but I have the feeling this has more to do with Mordor than Angmar.

-DJANGO-:
Concerning Wights Counter:
I played yesterday a 1on1 against Angmar with Mordor. I rushed Angmar pretty effective back to his Base in EG (by focusing the Vassal-Heads with Gorbag & early Gothmog). Then i went for Cirith Ungol, but only had the money for 2 Batallions, because my Economy wasnt good enough. Angmar sticked to Orcspam and although i had Cirith Ungol the Free-Banner Effect of Angmar came forth. Now it was even. Whilst i went on Eco and Nazgul, Angmar bought Zaphragor & Witchking. This was too much for Mordor, i was pushed back. Then i had to choose: Go for Trolls with the risk that Carn-Dum/Heros take them out, OR go for Bowmen-Spam to counter a possible Wights-Spam. In the following Angmar did go on Wights-Spam. I got 2 flying Nazgul and Firearrow-Bowmenspam, with Overseers (most of my Orcs had Overseers). Although i took the Witchking out with the 2 Fell Beasts, in the final fight i had no chance. I had to focus Zaphragor, Karsh and many many Wights. So i was a bit overwhelmed, and did a poor army placement, i clumped. Zapharagor went in the middle and went from Lvl. 4 to 10, killing at least 800CP (My fault does not mean that Zaphragor isn't ot OP af).
I really believe, that if there was no Zaphragor, i would have had time to focus on the Wights, and believe me, Firebowmen with Overseers deal good damage! But I agree with you that Wights are though for Mordor, because they dont die if they "touch" your Orcspam  :D

--- Zitat ---None of them got as many nerfs as Mordor.
--- Ende Zitat ---
- Yes, Isengard  :P

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