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Mordor Balance Discussion

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Odysseus:
Hmm, I do not like the direction of trolls beating heroes on a regular basis. I already gave an example with Beregond, but the average 1000 point hero will get heavily damaged by a single, un-upgraded troll, if both sides are without support. Then, it becomes a matter of attrition. Since a troll is cheaper than a hero, Mordor will always come out on top, even if the troll dies, since that hero will be so damaged that he will either die by a follow up, or be forced to back off to regenerate health. It becomes even more problematic with more expensive heroes. I mean, Level 1 Mollok loses to a default troll...3000>600. Gandalf takes quite a beating as well. I could go on like that, but I suppose you understand.

However, I would agree with you if trolls would take less damage from heroes if they receive their upgrades. That sounds pretty fair to me. Although, trolls do have the Furious Swipes that can knockback heroes, and knockback is always powerful, no matter which game.

I agree with the turrets against trolls. Trolls are made from stone, surely arrows should have a harder time damaging them.

Elite KryPtik:
I completely disagree. Heroes should be heavy hitters against any and all targets, excluding scout heroes. They cost a lot of money for a reason. Also, just looking at things from a realistic perspective, heroes would be far above average in terms of their combat skill. They would be one of the best candidates for actually defeating trolls in combat, besides the likes of archers. Damage from all archers right now is too high right now, 2 archers focusing can kill trolls in seconds, regardless of faction. Combine that with how big a troll is and how easy they are to single out, and you got yourself some target practice.

The_Necromancer0:
I agree with Elite Kryptik, heroes both in a logical balance wise manner should be the most apt to destroy trolls since they have sharpened their skills and blade/bow over the many decades of existence. I mean look at the Siege of Minas tirith, when the trolls cross the gate what kills them: 1) Gandalf (Hero) 2) Arrows (archers), perfect logical example. Gameplay wise it is logical they also be defeated by pikes but once they are armored I also think it would logical that they gain a sever boost in arrow resistance.

-DJANGO-:
Concerning the Replays:

1. Game: At the first big battle infront of the Modor Base u did loose at lot of Cavalry, given that u went into the fight with at least 14 Batts of Heavy Riders. Mordor Player did not use any Cry of the Nazgul. Nor did he use Saurons fire abilities or his waft of mist which gives Units an enorm armor Bonus. At the end, we can see what an enormous damage Sauron can do with his fire against Cavalry! If both players have full CP (in case of Rohan the best possible CP), u cant expect Mordor to win with not reaching its own full potential! (Or as u think that Replay should teach us so, with Only Standard Orcs). Given this situation, the Mordor player was supposed to build all cirith ungol units, to reach his given full potential, since he could not even get map control anymore.  Furthermore he had no Leadership in form of Gothmogs, whilst you had everything a Rohan player can max out of his potential.

2. Game: In the EG Mordor player had money for towers, but he did not build them (what can I say...)! Though your traitors died quickly against standard orcs. Mordor couldn't spam Orcs, due to CP Limit. U stole his troll money. When Rohan builds his Cavalry Stable, Mordor builds his 1. Eco building in his base ( :D). When Mordor attacks the settle point, Rohan player has more (YES MORE) CP! Though u are fighting next to the settlepoint, which means healing for you, and have all heros, u loose quite a lot. Later then, concerning Cav VS. Orcs see critic above...
=> in other words: the 2. Game is garbage & very poor play of Mordor.

P.S.: in the first game u didn't outspam him with peasants. It was traitors + Gamling (which will be hopefully fixed in next patch). Though i would like to see a peasant spam (lvl. 1 and no heros!) against Orcs  :D

Hamanathnath:
I was lucky enough to see these games live. :)  Pretty exciting at times.

It always easy to pick out someone's mistakes when you're watching a game.  There were very little things I would consider big mistakes from the Mordor player.  The only one I found to be a pretty bad mistake was in game 2.  It took too long for the Mordor player to increase his CP.  Other then that, I think the Mordor player did well in both games.

I personally don't agree that a Hero's price should determine how many trolls he can kill before dying.  By that logic, Heroes that cost 3000 should be able to defeat 5 trolls by themselves.  And while I think might be able to with good Ability use, Galadriel won't even have a chance, no matter what her level is.  The problem I find with Trolls vs Heroes is that Pretty much every single Hero has an Ability that can be used against trolls, While the trolls don't have anything that is useful against heroes.  Even the lower costing Heroes get something quickly that works well on Trolls, like Lurtz Carnage, Haldir's Golden Arrow, Faramir's Wounding Arrow, Hama's Untamed Determination.  Even Scout Heroes such as Nori, Pippin, Merry and Bill Ferny can become decent at Killing Trolls like 3 mins into the game (and Right Away in Bill Ferny's Case).  And I know someone is going to say "Well those heroes (besides Nori) have upgrades that make them better, and that makes them better vs Trolls".  To that, I say that Trolls come from a building that is risky to buy early game because of its high price, while Heroes come from the free citadel.  I doubt that everyone will agree with that logic, but you can't just ignore the Price of the Troll Cage.

Mouth of Sauron could use a very small price decrease, but nothing lower then 1800.  He is too strong late game to be lower than that.

I really hope the replays were enough to prove that Free Orcs by themselves are not too strong.  Without support, Orcs can be easily countered.  I am aware that if all the buffs I called for come true, then Mordor will be stronger.  That's why I suggested that Trolls cost a bit more.  But there are other slight nerfs that could be made to Weaken Mordor.  Why not increase the reload times of Spellbook Power by 10% each?  I think that is fair because Mordor has the Tribute Camps.  If Mollock becomes a lot stronger, then increasing his price wouldn't be that bad either.  Nerfing Orc would hurt Mordor's early game too much.

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