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Dwarven Balance Discussion

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Elendils Cousin 3. Grades:
Beornings are your friend, they force the dwarven player to at least get some pikes while adding considerable damage in their human form.
Edit: LoM was faster^^


--- Zitat von: Odysseus am 12. Mai 2016, 15:27 ---There is, however; one apparent issue with this. It lacks cohesion with the design of Lothlorien. I mean, they are supposed to be an archer superiority faction, so if the archers aren't bringing in the ''superiority'' then something is obviously wrong, no?

--- Ende Zitat ---
Lorien is not just archers. At their core they are a high damage, low health faction with superior mobility and a stronger focus on archers to get the best use out of that. I very much like that in different matchups you need to use different strategies to gain an advantage. It just adds to the game when you need to adapt to the strengths and weaknesses of your opponents.


Btw am I the only one who doesn't like the new battlewagons and doesn't approve of their increased armor against pikes? I felt they were pretty much fine before, maybe an armor buff against swords but that would have been all I changed...

Hamanathnath:
Well yes, Galadhrim and Beornings are good counters to Guardian Spam.  The problem is not only do they cost a lot more the Guardians, which makes them much more costly losses, but they are both easily countered by a single Battle Wagon, unless those Galadhirm are fully upgraded.  To kill a Battle Wagon, you need Lothlorien Pikes, and Lothlorien Pikes won't win against Iron Hills Guardians. 

I understand why Tower Shields have a more extreme buff, but Tower Shields combined with Heavy Armour makes Guardians pretty much immune to Arrows all together.  That's not even counting their ability. 

I personally like Battle Wagons as they are now.  Pikes still kill them ridiculously quickly, so I wouldn't say they are too strong.  However, I do think they should cost more then 20 Command Points.  You can theoritically have an army of 90 Battle Wagons with a maxed out 1800 command points (Imagine seeing that charge at you :P), So I would suggest to move them up to 45 Command Points at least, but I don't think they should be higher then 60.

Odysseus:

--- Zitat ---Btw am I the only one who doesn't like the new battlewagons and doesn't approve of their increased armor against pikes? I felt they were pretty much fine before, maybe an armor buff against swords but that would have been all I changed...
--- Ende Zitat ---

The team said that they wanted to differentiate it from other cavalry/trampling units, in the sense that it serves more like a supportive siege engine, instead of just cavalry. So, unlike cavalry, they are extremely resilient to turrets and arrows, like rams and other siege engines.

What I don't like about the Battlewagon is that it has near infinite trample. It only really slows down on pikes, but then usually dies anyway. The damn thing can take out many more hordes of swordsmen and archers combined than its worth. On top of that, it has the oil barrel too, which does nasty damage overall. All that for what? 400 resources and 25 command points? Lol.

However, the Wagon is going to see quite some changes for the upcoming patch as mentioned by Ea. I think they make sense, but I had hoped that the Battlewagon would just be used more for support rather than frontline combat due to its insane trampling capabilities, since Dwarves should not rely on trampling, which is a cavalry mechanic and I find that unfitting for the Dwarves :/. Just me though.

Draco100000:
Battlewagon management is not easy at all, they get slowered easily, just use them by your self insted critic it from the point of view of an elf. Battlewagons are now usefull yeah, same oil barrel than before, same upgrades as before, same dmg. They just are more resilient to all dmg types except pikes that almost instakill them, ( if elite or heroic instakill) So I think it is enough hard to use them now. Increasing their cost you just are sdaying to the dwarven player not to use them. if they cost 600 for example you have to waste 1200 just to get 1 battlewagon while this 1200 can be used for 6 guardian battallions. I see clearly what i would go for in early game in that case. Now the process is 1000 is dangerous do it too early, 1 pikemen can kill them if well combined with archers.... they still being more support unit than caval one thought.

Just dont think you should be able to kill everything with some dumb elvish archers, They key to win in this game is make equilibrated armies with infantry, pikes and swordsmen. Also I would say speed of elves is insane, allowing them to slay dwarves easily.

The_Necromancer0:
I agree with Odysseus, the Battlewagon trample abilities is even more powerful than the one of the Nazgul before nerf and for a much more minor cost. From experience Nazguls will take small amounts of damage by passing once through a single while the Battlewagon can enter a battalion and rampage it from all sides while taking minimal damage.

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