Iron Hills Hero Roles,some adjusments!?

[LordDainIronfoot]

Hello again to all Companions of the Great Edain Mod!
Long time no see 

So,I was thinking since Iron Hills is may be the Faction with the less amount of Heroes due to mostly lacking any lore accurate Heroes like most other factions and currently has 4 (5th is wokr in progress ) and Edain Mod has a very unique and cool Feature of giving al lthe Heroes a different Role to play and keep the Balance!

So my point is since Iron Hills have the less amount of Heroes 4 and let's hope we made them at least 5 we may Mix some Hero Roles like some Heroes having a little bit from 2 Roles to fil lthe gap of lesser nubmer of Heroes,and of course those Roles should be based on facts and lore reasons if possible,I mean Murin and Drar are non canon so not 100% lore acurate reasons for them!

Now on to the Heroes!
1. Lord Dain Ironfoot- currently he is Unit Supporter,wchich fits great in his realyl good Leadreship Skills according to both Books and Movie,but I was think Dain is not only Great Leader he is also may be on of the Greatest Dwarve Warriors to ever lived,so may to represent that we can give him a different LV 10 Ability which will represent that aspect of Dain's Character!
Now I am well aware that a lot of People loke the curernt LV 10 Summon Ability and I too personally like it,but from one point Summoning Erebor Soldiers when IHs is set during the Time of The Hobbit is not accurate because then there is no Erebor,but that is not the main reason,with the addition of Ered Mithrin on Outpost I think it show the Authority of Dain as Heir of Durin to summon other Dwarves to come to his Aid and the Ability which represents that may be not so needed!?

I suggest and Ability which will add a small Mass Slayer aspect to Dain showing the Great Warrior he is...the Ability can be Called "Might of Durin"or "Durin's Heir" or even "Mighty Rage" and will be this "Dain as a Warrior with Great Expirience and Skill renowned all over Middle Earth gains for 30 Seconds 75% DMG,50%Armor and 25% Speed!"

2.Thorin III Stonehelm- currently he is a mainly a Tank with some Hero Support and only One DMG Ability,but with the New Concept for him representing him as a Young and Strong Warrior I think he can become a Hero Killer,of course we should think of new Abilities for him as Hero Killer...
Abilities...

LV 1 "Dain's Heir" - "Thorin III is the Heir of the Great Dwarf Warrior Dain Ironfoot,Thorin III gets 25% DMG and 25% Attack Speed"

LV 5 "Mighty Stroke" - "Thorin III makes a Mighty Stroke with his Axe dealing 100% DMG and Stuning for 5seconds the Enemy Hero!"

LV 10 "Stonehelm" - "Thorin III earns his Monicker and shows his Great Prowess in Battle(Gains the Helmet) and even Enemy Heroes are afraid to face him in Battle,Thorin III gains 10% Armor and Enemy Hero fighting with Thorin losses 15% DMG and 10% Speed and 5% Armor"

3.Murin -currently he is Mass Slayer ,but I think he as the only Hero in Iron Hills with Shield can get a little Tank aspect to him...he can basically keep his Old Abilities but with few CHanges...
Abilities...

LV 1 Stayes the Same.
Lv2 "Shield Breaker" - stays bascially the Same but with 50% Armor addtion

Lv 5 - Stays the same but with little bit more DMG may be!?

LV 8 - "Dwarven Endurance" - "Being a Dwarf with big Fighting and Traveling Expirience Murin has remarkable Endurance even for a Dwarf- for 30 Seconds Murin gets 75% Armor and takes 50% less DMG from Spears and Arrows"

4. Drar - currently he is the Building Destroyer and should stay that Way with may be different or somewhat improved final Ability!
Ability..

LV 5 - "Descructive Volley" - "Drar as a master Archer and Captain of Iron Hills Archers  Summons 3 Battalions of Iron Hills Arches with Fire Arrows which Shot 2 Volleys at and Enemy Building doing Moderate DMG to the building and Low DMG on units in the Vicinity"

LV 10 "Artillery Barage" - "Drar summons 5 Big Catapults with Single Shot and orders them to fire at an Enemy Building doung Great Amount of DMG to the Building and Knockbacks any Units in Vicinity"

5. "Narin"  - the Suggestion for a Hero in IHs based on Dain's Messanger from the Book,can get the Role of hero Supporter with apropriate Abilites of course!
Abilities...

LV 1 "Messanger of Iron Hills/Dain" - ""Narin is the Messenger of Dain,traveling fast with his Comapnions to deliver any messege his Lord gave him and traels around Middle Earth gaining Expirience from different Cultures -Upon activation Ally Heroes in the Vicnity of Narin gets 15% Speed and Earn 15% more EXP for 20 Seconds"

LV 5 - "Narin Companions" - "Narin alwasy have Companions with hom for Extra protection to make sure he delivers the Message,Narin Summons 3-4 of his Companions around a selected friendly Hero to preotect him (either till they die or for short amoun of time like 30-40 seconds) "

LV 10 - "Threat for War" - "Narin threatens everyone who shal stand in his path with War/Battle - Heroes in the Vicinity of Narin gain 20% DMG and 15% Attack Speed and Fear and Knockback resistance for 30 Seconds" OR "Enemies within close range to IHs Heros near Narin get Fear Effect and lose 25% Armor and 25% Speed"

Now my Abilities are probably not worth it but my main idea is to distribute the Roles of the Heroes in this way to compansate forthe Lack of Heroes and give the current ones unique Traits about their Characters!

All suggestions about abilites and etc. are most welcome!

I am awating your feedback do you like or dislike the idea and what your thoughts are!

Greetings and best regards!....

[WarOfTheRingVeteran]

Dain - totally agree with you, but I'm sorta indifferent about your suggestion for his level 10 ability. Even though I find it better fitting than summoning.

Thorin - I like to imagine him as a mass slayer; the reason I feel indifferent about Dain's last ability.

Murin - Agreed.

Drar - better to summon catapults than meteors

"Narin" - I'm starting to like the idea of having more Dwarf heroes. I love Dwarves! I quite like your concept. And I have one more suggestion for him:

Level 3: Message from the King Under the Mountain - Selected hero recives good news (70%-80% chance) and gains double experience and his damage and armour are enhanced for about a minute. Or he can recive bad news (30%-20% chance) and he is twice as slower and deals less damage for the same amount of time.

[LordDainIronfoot]

Thank you fro the feedback WarOfTheRingVeteran!

Dain- I understand you,but if you ahve another idea for his ability feel more than free to share it!For him it is not so needed to change his Summon but I jsut wanted to represent the Warrior par of him just as much as the Leader part which his First and Third Ability show so well!

Thorin III - I would like him as a Mass Slayer but I think if IHs will have a Hero Killer and it is not going to be Lord Dain himself then who is better than his Son and Heir the young and strong Heir of Durin which in this case it Thorin III,I see him more fitting as Hero Killer than  Murin if we change their Roles!

Murin-glad you agree,plus I alwasy found his last Ability not so convincing and good as a Final(Strongest) Ability!

Dra- exactly my Point,instead of Fire Arrow and Flaming Boulders coming from nowhere ,I think a Summon of 3 Battalions of Arhcers (Just of the Volley ofcourse then they disapear) and 5 Catapults for a Barage will make his abilities much more believeable!

"Narin" - I happy that you begin to like the idea,I think he can be an awesome Hero wth the proper abilities,so let's find him proper ones!

Well  yur LV 3 Ability suggestions first will need a different name since during the Time of the Hobbit Dain is not yet King Udner the Mountain especialyl in Iron Hills! Another thing is I do not seem to see fitting the Negative part of the Ability althoug the First part seems good!

Greetings!

[Fredius]

Well I like your ideas, I have one suggestion for an ability for Narin which I posted in the other thread some time ago:

Since he is a messenger, I suggest we give him an ability called "Diplomatic Immunity". Diplomats/messengers are not allowed to be killed, because they are only there to carry a message. The Mouth of Sauron, for example, went to Erebor even though he is the enemy, but because he is just a messenger, he was not killed. I think the same ability can be applied for Narin, for a little while he can go inside the enemy base without being attacked, but he himself can not attack enemies. It's similiar to Sauron's Annathar ability.

I don't remember what level it could be used for though.

[LordDainIronfoot]

I am glad you like the idea! :-) Does that include Dain LV 10 Ability!? :-)

Well I liked your Ability idea,but since we want Narin to be Here Supporter,will it be appropriate to have such an ability which will be useful only for him!? :-)

[ThorinsNemesis]

I like your ideas too.
I always imagined Dain for the Iron Hills should get a little more 'Mass slayer'-like, and that lvl 10 ability would fit in nicely  .
And I completely agree, when I saw Thorin III's concept by the Team, I thought he looked like an excellent opportunity for a hero killer, at least he looks like a very good hero killer to me  .

[LordDainIronfoot]

Glad you like it! :-) But what you think of the Abilities of the other Heroes my friend!? :-)
About Thorin III agree with you,I thought the same,although I think he can keep his old Face but with more Orange Color and may be less Leather and more Iron Armor but that is for another topic! :-)

[ThorinsNemesis]

About Murin, I again agree that he should be a tank since he has that shield (on different topic, I think he should get a different helmet, he looks like a Dwarven Eomer now  )
For Drar, I like your idea too, although I still think it would be better if he summoned five balistas from BOTFA instead of the catapults  .

[LordDainIronfoot]

About Murin visuals I have made a Suggestion in the Brief Dwarven Suggestions Thread because I too think he looks too much like Eomer ,you can look at my suggestion,the Team said they will think about that in Future! :-)

Drat of.course he.can get the Ballista Summon but since that Ballista Thread is still on.discussion I made another Ability! :-) But I personally prefer the Iron Ballista to be recruitable as a Siege Unit!:-)

[CragLord]

Hello there.

It is nice to see one more dwarven topic (in my eyes ofc ).
First, I like idea of topic, and I hope we will suggest something unique and smart here, Iron Hills are in my opinion also in bad situation concerning number of heroes.
Second, Dain, you should always add to topic list of current  hero abilities with their descriptions among new abilities you propose so people here could have good insight in situation. Simply because comparison and insight of changed details of abilities (I needed to start game so I could refresh my memory about current abilites ).

Concerning Lord Dain hero, I am against this level 10 ability change in way you have proposed. I think also that he is mainly unit supporter and this new proposal won't add him true mass slayer property. I mean, he will be more mass slayer but not in right way. He will buff his armor and speed and damage but for real mass slayer role (even in minor term as you probably have meant) he need some area damage ability or area damage weapon damage swing etc. Buffing his attack without AOE weapon damage won't add some mass slayer property to him. This is not main reason why I am against this, I am mainly because I would like to see some unique units summon in his palantir. I know we have discussed so many times about this, and I am still for some new summon, because current one is very non fitting in lore and other aspects, as you have mentioned some of them. In my opinion this summon should be change to summon of those book described veterans, that kind of summon is the best in lore aspects, and those veterans have already good models in dwarven slayer units. I know that this proposal has already been suggested, but I really can't agree to any other summon ability of units (including current one which is I must say again very non fitting). Also I couldn't say that I agree about your proposal of adding that new ability, simply in my mind is some summon of lore proved units (models to be precise).

Concerning new present Thorin model, I agree he now deserve new hero killer role in Iron Hills kingdom. So I agree and support your proposal about him. Also I hope he will keep his rune supporting role, which I really like.

Murin, also nice proposal, I agree about it. He should have tanky role, and I agree about current level 8 ability, which is in my opinion very poor in concept terms. This ability need to be changed, I support your proposal.

Concerning Drar, there is currently small problem. I never liked this Sabotage ability, so I am more for adding balistas in places of this ability. This suggestion is in one hand part of that Iron Hills Siege weapon topic. About your proposal, replacing those mini Barrage ability with Catapults is fine if catabults landing projectiles will have same area damage effect. If catapult proposal is for single building, then I am aginst it. Also I am not so found of summoning of Iron Hills archers for purpose of doing some area damage instead of summoning of balistas for example (because this ability is also candidate for sabotage ability place in palantir of abilities).

Concerning Narin, I really like messenger idea. I hope his integration as scout hero in general with some hero supporting abilities as you have suggested. In my eyes it is very nice suggestion. Fredius have also suggested nice ability, that "Diplomatic Immunity". This ability is very nice for scout hero and it represent nice modification of cloak hobbit ability but in terms of messenger. So I am for integration of this ability also but for some lower level, it really represent nice scout ability.

Greetings

[Melkor Bauglir]

Hmm, I probably agree, that IH could get one additional hero, for now they are really poor in that regard. However this guy should definitely not be anything resembling a power house on the battle field as IH as some extremly good replacements for their missing heroes (global nuking power, cavalry and stronger outpost units, especially the Dragonslayer sounds like some sort of mini-hero).
Therefore I'm not so sure if I like your proposal, LordDainIronfoot, because both diversifying AND adding a new hero to a faction which already has pretty good replacements for their missing heroes might be a bit too much.
Now to your ideas in specific:

--> Yourself (): I agree with you, that it's not really a coherent summon, because it breaks the time line of the Mod. Now, I don't specifically enjoy the idea of just a blademaster ability: I get your idea of showing he is also a great fighter, but firstly other such leaders / fighters (cough*Aragorn*cough) also are "reduced" to one of their roles and they are looking pretty good right now.
Therefore I would prefer such an idea as CragLord proposed, summoning the Dwarven Slayers (the Lord Dain, Ered Luin could buy in their inn, actually had this ability ). This ability could as well give him a little boost, if this is really needing (what I don't really think, tbh), like: "Dain Ironfoot calls for his best men to follow him into battle. Temporarily summon 2 bataillons of fully upgraded Dwarven Slayers. Dain and these troops get +30% attack for the next 10 seconds."

--> Thorin III. Stonehelm: I like the Mighty Stroke, sort of like Dain's Heir (mainly because attack speed modifiers don't really work on melee weapons, that's some strange issue with the game ), but I don't like Stonehelm the least. Atm the only hero which a hero weakening aura is the Witchking of Mordor and this effect is far more suitable for the Leader of the Ringwraiths than for a dwarven prince. I suggest to not change this ablity at all, having a long lasting fighter is also really valuable against heroes.

--> Murin: This could be an intersting change, but than his damage has to be reduced severely. If he can just give himself +50% (!) armor from level two onwards this will just make him a brutal manfighter for his money. Is the level 8 ability currently the War Cry?

--> Drar: I don't like the amount of soldiers he can summon. Of course they are just a visual interface for his spells, but at least his flame arrows should stay -remember, he is currently the only archer hero in the entire game, who can sort of "upgrade" his basic attacks!

--> Narin: Well, I can understand the reasoning of adding a hero in the first place, but Narin is not ready yet! First of all, he should only be a very weak hero (as I said: IH has really strong substitutions for their missing heroes!), I am beginning to think if he should even have access to like level 10 or full 4 spells.
Also his current abilities sound disgustingly strong if used in conjunction with other dwarven heroes... Messenger of Dain would just counter a basic weakness of dwarven heroes (them being slow), also it sort of destroys the enemy for ever being surprised by Narin: Imagine you recruiting all heroes than suddenly adding Narin and start a fight with Messenger active. The enemy couldn't escape or at least it would be harder for him to do so and he gets punished even harder for feeding away XP which then gets amplyfied! This ability should just be changed from the beginning, IMO dwarvens don't need that strong hero support because they got Mithril.
Threat of War is a similar story: +50% attack damage and +30% attack speed (which is again not really possibly to do) is ludicrously strong, this spell alone makes this guy pretty broken. I can not imagine any heroes survive this onslaught, this spell is certainly a lot stronger then the final powers of the other dwarven realms. (Which would be double unfair: IH has good replacement for their missing heroes and also a stronger hero?)
Also, I am not content with the Diplomatic Immunity. Grima Wormtongue already has pretty much this ability (Anatar works differently IMO, as it doesn't allow for a quick escape) and I don't think its such an innovative idea to include it again for dwarves.

So, in conclusion: I am kind of divided on your ideas. Some are great, others have potential, others need a lot of work to be ready!


Greetings
Melkor Bauglir

PS: One quick reminder, because you have to keep this in mind: Attack modifiers (like +50% damage) stack multiplicative! This means that multiple modifiers can result in crazy and totally unintended boni (like the +75% attack damage in Dain's possible level 10 ability combined with Narin's +50% attack damage would result in a whopping +225% attack damage, which is obviously trough the roof! Just wanted to remind you of this. (BTW: This is not the same for armor buffs, they stack additively.)

[CragLord]

I think that Diplomatic immunity is similar like Grima's ability, but you can see all time Narin while for instance Grima is invisible. Diplomatic Immunity could be used in enemy base for scouting, and Grima could use his ability anywhere.
So it is pretty different in same time.

[LordDainIronfoot]

Hello my friend I am glad you like the Thread there is one more coming! And I am happy to see your feedback on the matter! :-)

About Dain,well I (at least I think I was) was the first that suggested for his LV 10 to Summon 4-5 Battalions if Iron Hills Slayers because they are like 95% accurate representation of the 500 Veterans from the Book which Dain brought to Erebor and it is not fitting to have an unlimited number of Veterans!?But the idea was rejected sadly,my Point is that I like and agree Dain getting a better Summon but since all suggestions for that the Slayers,The Iron Guard and etc. were rejected I thought it will be nice if we actually show gow Skilful and Experienced Warrior Dain really is! :-) And I know and agree that to be part Mass Slayer he needs Knockback and Area DMG or at least one of them and thets why I created the "Lord Dain Boost" Thread to give him one of them as a proof of his Physical Strength as a Dwarf in his Prime and one of the Best Warriors and also to show his Leader Status but no answer there from the Team but I am sure they are aware of it and will think about ot! :-)
So I actually may prefer better to show some of the Great Warrior Dain than thr Great Leader Dain! :-)

Murin yeah I think the same as you and am glad you support my idea! :-)

Thorin III of course will keep his Runes I love them! :-)

About Drar ,well since the Ballistas are still in discussion I decided to give him Catapults which I like more and yeah they will get the DMG of the Current Ability but only will look more logical! :-) Plus I personally prefer Ballista as a Recruitable Siege Unit but I am fine with being a Summon too! :-)

Narin happy you like him but since Iron Hills already has the unique Ram Scout/Cavalry I think Narin can't be a Scout and should get the Hero Supporter Role if Thorin III becomes Hero Killer and yea I like Fredius idea but if Narin is going to be Hero Supporter that ability will not fit unless it conceals some other Hero rather than Narin himself! :-)

Greetings! :-)

P.S. I am at work and already had written this reply so I apologize to Melkor and I will answer him specifically later this night! :-) I am sorry for this! :-)

[CragLord]

Hello my friend I am glad you like the Thread there is one more coming! And I am happy to see your feedback on the matter! :-)

About Dain,well I (at least I think I was) was the first that suggested for his LV 10 to Summon 4-5 Battalions if Iron Hills Slayers because they are like 95% accurate representation of the 500 Veterans from the Book which Dain brought to Erebor and it is not fitting to have an unlimited number of Veterans!?But the idea was rejected sadly,my Point is that I like and agree Dain getting a better Summon but since all suggestions for that the Slayers,The Iron Guard and etc. were rejected I thought it will be nice if we actually show gow Skilful and Experienced Warrior Dain really is! :-) And I know and agree that to be part Mass Slayer he needs Knockback and Area DMG or at least one of them and thets why I created the "Lord Dain Boost" Thread to give him one of them as a proof of his Physical Strength as a Dwarf in his Prime and one of the Best Warriors and also to show his Leader Status but no answer there from the Team but I am sure they are aware of it and will think about ot! :-)
So I actually may prefer better to show some of the Great Warrior Dain than thr Great Leader Dain! :-)

Murin yeah I think the same as you and am glad you support my idea! :-)

Thorin III of course will keep his Runes I love them! :-)

About Drar ,well since the Ballistas are still in discussion I decided to give him Catapults which I like more and yeah they will get the DMG of the Current Ability but only will look more logical! :-) Plus I personally prefer Ballista as a Recruitable Siege Unit but I am fine with being a Summon too! :-)

Narin happy you like him but since Iron Hills already has the unique Ram Scout/Cavalry I think Narin can't be a Scout and should get the Hero Supporter Role if Thorin III becomes Hero Killer and yea I like Fredius idea but if Narin is going to be Hero Supporter that ability will not fit unless it conceals some other Hero rather than Narin himself! :-)

Greetings! :-)

P.S. I am at work and already had written this reply so I apologize to Melkor and I will answer him specifically later this night! :-) I am sorry for this! :-)

Thanks Dain.

Yes, I am still for that integration in this game, simply it is the most fitting proposal so far, and only personal preferences are stopping it, not lore or any other logical reasons. But I really can't see anything else for level 10 ability more fitting then those veterans...
Concerning your proposal, adding that buffing ability could work but I think only with AOE effect. So, I hope you will have success in your "Lord Dain Boost" thread.

Concerning Drar, it is good idea, but it depends if balista is going to be implemented and how it will be implemented.

Narin, ok, I forgot about ram scouting, it is good idea for this hero to be hero supporter. I like it for now, and support it.

Regards
 

[LordDainIronfoot]

Hmm, I probably agree, that IH could get one additional hero, for now they are really poor in that regard. However this guy should definitely not be anything resembling a power house on the battle field as IH as some extremly good replacements for their missing heroes (global nuking power, cavalry and stronger outpost units, especially the Dragonslayer sounds like some sort of mini-hero).
Therefore I'm not so sure if I like your proposal, LordDainIronfoot, because both diversifying AND adding a new hero to a faction which already has pretty good replacements for their missing heroes might be a bit too much.
Now to your ideas in specific:

--> Yourself (): I agree with you, that it's not really a coherent summon, because it breaks the time line of the Mod. Now, I don't specifically enjoy the idea of just a blademaster ability: I get your idea of showing he is also a great fighter, but firstly other such leaders / fighters (cough*Aragorn*cough) also are "reduced" to one of their roles and they are looking pretty good right now.
Therefore I would prefer such an idea as CragLord proposed, summoning the Dwarven Slayers (the Lord Dain, Ered Luin could buy in their inn, actually had this ability ). This ability could as well give him a little boost, if this is really needing (what I don't really think, tbh), like: "Dain Ironfoot calls for his best men to follow him into battle. Temporarily summon 2 bataillons of fully upgraded Dwarven Slayers. Dain and these troops get +30% attack for the next 10 seconds."

--> Thorin III. Stonehelm: I like the Mighty Stroke, sort of like Dain's Heir (mainly because attack speed modifiers don't really work on melee weapons, that's some strange issue with the game ), but I don't like Stonehelm the least. Atm the only hero which a hero weakening aura is the Witchking of Mordor and this effect is far more suitable for the Leader of the Ringwraiths than for a dwarven prince. I suggest to not change this ablity at all, having a long lasting fighter is also really valuable against heroes.

--> Murin: This could be an intersting change, but than his damage has to be reduced severely. If he can just give himself +50% (!) armor from level two onwards this will just make him a brutal manfighter for his money. Is the level 8 ability currently the War Cry?

--> Drar: I don't like the amount of soldiers he can summon. Of course they are just a visual interface for his spells, but at least his flame arrows should stay -remember, he is currently the only archer hero in the entire game, who can sort of "upgrade" his basic attacks!

--> Narin: Well, I can understand the reasoning of adding a hero in the first place, but Narin is not ready yet! First of all, he should only be a very weak hero (as I said: IH has really strong substitutions for their missing heroes!), I am beginning to think if he should even have access to like level 10 or full 4 spells.
Also his current abilities sound disgustingly strong if used in conjunction with other dwarven heroes... Messenger of Dain would just counter a basic weakness of dwarven heroes (them being slow), also it sort of destroys the enemy for ever being surprised by Narin: Imagine you recruiting all heroes than suddenly adding Narin and start a fight with Messenger active. The enemy couldn't escape or at least it would be harder for him to do so and he gets punished even harder for feeding away XP which then gets amplyfied! This ability should just be changed from the beginning, IMO dwarvens don't need that strong hero support because they got Mithril.
Threat of War is a similar story: +50% attack damage and +30% attack speed (which is again not really possibly to do) is ludicrously strong, this spell alone makes this guy pretty broken. I can not imagine any heroes survive this onslaught, this spell is certainly a lot stronger then the final powers of the other dwarven realms. (Which would be double unfair: IH has good replacement for their missing heroes and also a stronger hero?)
Also, I am not content with the Diplomatic Immunity. Grima Wormtongue already has pretty much this ability (Anatar works differently IMO, as it doesn't allow for a quick escape) and I don't think its such an innovative idea to include it again for dwarves.

So, in conclusion: I am kind of divided on your ideas. Some are great, others have potential, others need a lot of work to be ready!


Greetings
Melkor Bauglir

PS: One quick reminder, because you have to keep this in mind: Attack modifiers (like +50% damage) stack multiplicative! This means that multiple modifiers can result in crazy and totally unintended boni (like the +75% attack damage in Dain's possible level 10 ability combined with Narin's +50% attack damage would result in a whopping +225% attack damage, which is obviously trough the roof! Just wanted to remind you of this. (BTW: This is not the same for armor buffs, they stack additively.)

Firstly I want to thank you for the feedback! :-)

I agree about the Ram/Cavalry but about the Catapult I tend to disagree,because firstly I think we should test to see how Strong and Useful in DMG it really is before we can judge,but even so I think that a Catapult can't be so good Substitute for a Hero and because of that I think IHs needs at least 1 more Hero,otherwise they are at big disadvantage against Factions who has like 6-7 or even more Heroes! :-)

Now about Dain(me :) ! As it was I who thought about the Idea for Summoning Slayers as Book representation of the 500 Veterans I obviously agree with it and like it,and the addition you made I like even more! :-) So I have no problem with it being his LV 10 Summon! But if those Slayers become his Summon should they be an Elite Recruitable Unit or we need New One!? :-) About Aragorn well I get your point but even he has some minor Leadership=Small Unit Supporter Role! :-)

About Thorin III you think his last Ability may stay the same but the uou like the first Two!?Just asking to be sure! :-) Well I think he needs a little Different Effect for his Last Ability than the current because the it is more like Hero Supporter Ability than a Hero Killer! :-) You seem to understand better some mechanics and things I would be more than happy if you share some ideas about Abilities ! :-)

On Murin well we can reduce it to 25% what you think about that mate!? :-) And yes his current LV 8 Ability is "War Cry"! :-)

About Drar of course he will keep his "Fire Arrow"  Selr-Upgrade ,but if you do not like 3 Battalions may be we can make them 2,or you do not like the ability itself!? :-)

About Narin I am glad you like.the concept about him and I agree he is not ready thats why I hope the community will help make him a good Hero! :-)
Now that you mention a those things I really agree with you,as I said I am not so good with Abilities and thought of those Abilities at the moment I wrote the Thread in 00:00 after I got home from work 
How about those Narin abilities stay the same but with a significant nerf I mean lesser Buffs smaller percentage of buff,what do you think about that my friend!? :-)

Hello my friend I am glad you like the Thread there is one more coming! And I am happy to see your feedback on the matter! :-)

About Dain,well I (at least I think I was) was the first that suggested for his LV 10 to Summon 4-5 Battalions if Iron Hills Slayers because they are like 95% accurate representation of the 500 Veterans from the Book which Dain brought to Erebor and it is not fitting to have an unlimited number of Veterans!?But the idea was rejected sadly,my Point is that I like and agree Dain getting a better Summon but since all suggestions for that the Slayers,The Iron Guard and etc. were rejected I thought it will be nice if we actually show gow Skilful and Experienced Warrior Dain really is! :-) And I know and agree that to be part Mass Slayer he needs Knockback and Area DMG or at least one of them and thets why I created the "Lord Dain Boost" Thread to give him one of them as a proof of his Physical Strength as a Dwarf in his Prime and one of the Best Warriors and also to show his Leader Status but no answer there from the Team but I am sure they are aware of it and will think about ot! :-)
So I actually may prefer better to show some of the Great Warrior Dain than thr Great Leader Dain! :-)

Murin yeah I think the same as you and am glad you support my idea! :-)

Thorin III of course will keep his Runes I love them! :-)

About Drar ,well since the Ballistas are still in discussion I decided to give him Catapults which I like more and yeah they will get the DMG of the Current Ability but only will look more logical! :-) Plus I personally prefer Ballista as a Recruitable Siege Unit but I am fine with being a Summon too! :-)

Narin happy you like him but since Iron Hills already has the unique Ram Scout/Cavalry I think Narin can't be a Scout and should get the Hero Supporter Role if Thorin III becomes Hero Killer and yea I like Fredius idea but if Narin is going to be Hero Supporter that ability will not fit unless it conceals some other Hero rather than Narin himself! :-)

Greetings! :-)

P.S. I am at work and already had written this reply so I apologize to Melkor and I will answer him specifically later this night! :-) I am sorry for this! :-)

Thanks Dain.

Yes, I am still for that integration in this game, simply it is the most fitting proposal so far, and only personal preferences are stopping it, not lore or any other logical reasons. But I really can't see anything else for level 10 ability more fitting then those veterans...
Concerning your proposal, adding that buffing ability could work but I think only with AOE effect. So, I hope you will have success in your "Lord Dain Boost" thread.

Concerning Drar, it is good idea, but it depends if balista is going to be implemented and how it will be implemented.

Narin, ok, I forgot about ram scouting, it is good idea for this hero to be hero supporter. I like it for now, and support it.

Regards
 

I too still support the Slayers Summon my.friend let's hope th e Team will like it and use it! :-) When I first thought about it I was eager to see it in game lets hope I will see that day ! :-)
About Dain Boost well for now it seems really dead thread with next to 0 chances of success! :-)

Yup about Drar we should wait for the Ballista Thread to resolve! :-)

About Narin glad to hear it but what you think of nerfing a little the Abilities I suggested!? :-)

Greetings to all and thank you for the feedback! :-)

[Fredius]

Hello guys I'm so sorry that I can't be of help with this discussion; I kinda suck at thinking of new abilities, hero-roles and that sort of things . I was wondering if you guys perhaps have any idea about how the appearence of the new Narin should be? Any concepts you can think of?

If you guys would like to then by the time everything is discussed and concluded, and the Team hasn't responded to this discussion; I 'd like to make this proposal my second Translating Project to post in the German forums. I will include both Narin's concept as well as the current abilities of the other Dwarven hero's in one big suggestion. I will do it after the Ballista suggestion .

[LordDainIronfoot]

Hi there my friend! No problem at all,I in fact am bad with Abilities too,especially about Heroes

Now I am more than happy that you are willing to translate another of our Threads! But I suggest that we continue th "Narin"Discussion in his own Thread,I will summorize what we got on him for now there and we can choose from the few Pictures I suggested there if someone has better ideas about his look he is welcome to share them there!

Here is the link...

http://en.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,32022.45.html

So here we can continue discussing about Dain Ironfoot,Thorin Stonehelm,Murin and Drar Roles and Abilities but about Narin we should continue in his own Thread!

Greetings and bestregards to all!

[Fredius]

I see, then I think that I'll translate the Narin suggestion first because IH need a new hero ASAP, so he has priority at the moment, right ?

[LordDainIronfoot]

While you are right my friend,tehre is this thing that currently the Role of a Hero Supporter is in the Hands of Thorin III,so if you are going to Translate and Represnt Narin as Hero Supporter I think you will need the Whole Heroes Thread so that People can udnerstand which Role is for who and why!?

[Fredius]

Okay, I'll do both suggestions in one thread then .

[LordDainIronfoot]

Sorry for the too much  work my friend,but I really think it will be necessary for the Fans to proper understanding about the whole idea! :-) I really apologize! :-)

[Fredius]

No need to apologize my friend, I'll gladly do it .

[Gandalf The Gray]

i think iron heels needs more heroes

[LordDainIronfoot]

Agree,but I think we shoudn't overdo it! In my opinion at least 1 more Hero will be enough! If the Team wants to of course!

I just hope they have the time to check the idea,there are too many suggestions and ideas for them to read and sort out!

[Gandalf The Gray]

shouldn't overdo it i think the elves did that already with celembrimor,galadriel,rumil,orophin,legolas,thranduil,haldir,quickbeam,treebeard,beorn(i know he is grimbeorn but his name says beorn)   

[LordDainIronfoot]

Well Mordor too has a lot of Heroes,but for Example Lorien Heroes are all canon while IHs has only 2 canon Heroes,simply there are not so much Dwarven Hereos Especially for IHs since Tolkien never quite expanded the Dwarven History and Race!

So I think 1 canon based Hero like Narin is much better than 2-3 non canon made up Hereos more to the curernt 2 others And plus Murin and Drar are still half canon from Workshop And I really like them!

I think 1 more Hero will be enough for IHs with some Role Adjusments too!

Greetings and best regards from the Lord of the Iron Hills!

[Gandalf The Gray]

ya have a point

[DainSonOfNàin]

Lord Dain, i agree! ^^ this is exactly what is needed.

Dain:
i agree that the lvl 10 sum is out of place, and woud love to have the vets sum, or like the smal mass slayer instead. it is so tru that the mighty Dain shoud show his fiers side a bit more clerly so the troops he is suporting can not only feel hees presance but see it aswell^^ so somthing in that direction woud have been rly nice

Thorin:
a hero killer and that new model, it woud have been a wet dream! thos abilities looks great aswell. Just give the buffing job to someone else, nerin, nar... eh the new guy.. :p

Murin:
again, same as i feel, tank him abit up and give the first abillity som more armor, and that lvl 8 abiliti is perfect in my eyes.

Drar: i can see that here we can have many diferent solutions, but as long as he stays a building killer and he have some sort of Artillery Barage that you coud kill units, im more than happy.

Narin: love the abilities u gave him, and he can take thorins job with the buffs to but he can rly be anything the edain team needs him to be to fill what ever gap they have.

[LordDainIronfoot]

Thank you for the support,I am glad you like the idea like whole! :-)

Greetings and best regards from the Lord of the Iron Hills! :-)