28. Mär 2024, 21:39 Hallo Gast.
Willkommen Gast. Bitte einloggen oder registrieren. Haben Sie Ihre Aktivierungs E-Mail übersehen?

Einloggen mit Benutzername, Passwort und Sitzungslänge. Hierbei werden gemäß Datenschutzerklärung Benutzername und Passwort verschlüsselt für die gewählte Dauer in einem Cookie abgelegt.


Select Boards:
 
Language:
 


Autor Thema: Lothlórien Balance Discussion  (Gelesen 97224 mal)

Ealendril der Dunkle

  • Gast
Lothlórien Balance Discussion
« am: 9. Nov 2015, 10:58 »
In this thread, you can discuss balancing issues regarding the faction Lothlórien.
If you feel that a balance topic is so big that it might deserve its own thread, you are free to create one; but for smaller points this thread could be definitely useful.
« Letzte Änderung: 23. Jan 2016, 01:20 von DieWalküre »

Elite KryPtik

  • Gardist von Meduseld
  • ***
  • Beiträge: 1.050
  • Arise! Arise, Writers of KryPtik!
Re: Lothlórien Balance Discussion
« Antwort #1 am: 10. Nov 2015, 04:05 »
Beornings are very strong, and especially are too strong against heroes. Mordor has no effective affordable counter to Beorning spam during early game, 4 beornings can defeat a nazgul and all it takes is 1 to kill gorbag/shagrat. All it takes is 6-8 Beornings to potentially completely kill Mordor within 10 minutes.
Arise! Arise, Riders of Theoden! Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter! Spear shall be shaken! Shield shall be splintered! A sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now! Ride now! Ride, ride to ruin, and the worlds ending! FORTH EORLINGAS!

H4lbarad

  • Pförtner von Bree
  • *
  • Beiträge: 94
Re: Lothlórien Balance Discussion
« Antwort #2 am: 10. Nov 2015, 09:27 »
Ents are really too weak. They are killed really very fast, and do very small damages to structures.

Furthermore, once they are attacked by flaming arrows, they can't do nothing more, and we know that they will die.

DrHouse93

  • Elronds Berater
  • **
  • Beiträge: 336
Re: Lothlórien Balance Discussion
« Antwort #3 am: 10. Nov 2015, 10:13 »
Beornings are very strong, and especially are too strong against heroes. Mordor has no effective affordable counter to Beorning spam during early game, 4 beornings can defeat a nazgul and all it takes is 1 to kill gorbag/shagrat. All it takes is 6-8 Beornings to potentially completely kill Mordor within 10 minutes.
Same happens with Isengard. Dunlendings and Scouts are completely useless against Beorninger, and as soon as the enemy starts spamming them I usually lose. I like their strength, of course, but I think it's ridiculous they can stand up to whole armies by themselves

Ealendril der Dunkle

  • Gast
Re: Lothlórien Balance Discussion
« Antwort #4 am: 10. Nov 2015, 12:35 »
Zitat
4 beornings can defeat a nazgul and all it takes is 1 to kill gorbag/shagrat
Ok, let us think about it: 4 Beornings have a cost around 4x350= 1400. Blackrider's have a cost around 1100, less then 4 Beorningers. In my opinion its abslutly in balance if 4 Beorningers are able to kill a Nazgul and 1 Beorninger is able to kill shagrat/gorbag (cost 200 -> Beorninger 350). Keep in mind, that you are able to flee with the Nazgul to autoheal them in your base, Beornings arent able to autoheal.

Its absolutly no problem to reduce the damage of the Beornings, but in fact this arguments are incomprehensible.^^

Bogdan Hmel

  • Thain des Auenlandes
  • *
  • Beiträge: 32
Re: Lothlórien Balance Discussion
« Antwort #5 am: 10. Nov 2015, 13:47 »
 But they cause too much damage to buildings(Beornings).

(Palland)Raschi

  • Turmwache
  • ***
  • Beiträge: 1.987
  • Fanatiker sind unbeständige Freunde
Re: Lothlórien Balance Discussion
« Antwort #6 am: 10. Nov 2015, 14:07 »
Zitat
But they cause too much damage to buildings(Beornings).

I do not consider this fact to be a Problem at all. Lorien does not have a great amount of siege weapons in its arsenal and Ents are not as cheap, effective and early available as most rams are.
Therefore Lorien Needs this Kind of unit in the first periods of time of the game to harm buildings effectively.
MfG Raschi

[Jedwede rechtliche Äußerung, Kommentierung oder Information über PM oder öffentlichen Beitrag von meiner Seite stellt lediglich eine reine Gefälligkeit dar und erfolgt ohne jeglichen Rechtsbindungswille.]

Ohne Schuld verfasst einen Forumsbeitrag, wer beim Abfassen eines Beitrags wegen einer krankhaften seelischen Störung, wegen einer tiefgreifenden Bewusstseinsstörung oder wegen Schwachsinns oder einer schweren anderen seelischen Abartigkeit unfähig ist, die Verletzung der Forenregeln einzusehen oder nach dieser Einsicht zu handeln.

Elite KryPtik

  • Gardist von Meduseld
  • ***
  • Beiträge: 1.050
  • Arise! Arise, Writers of KryPtik!
Re: Lothlórien Balance Discussion
« Antwort #7 am: 10. Nov 2015, 14:08 »
Well I'm comparing it to Berserkers, when last I played 4 berserkers aren't able to kill a hero. Also I may have exaggerated a bit, it was in the heat of battle so its hard to tell for sure how many were hitting me. All I know is that 4 beornings killed 2 of my nazgul and Gorbag, and the only units supporting them were a couple of lorien archers/warriors. I was backed up by 2 units of ungol halberds and black uruks, as well as a bunch of basic orcs, and the tiny army beat mine because of the beornings.
Arise! Arise, Riders of Theoden! Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter! Spear shall be shaken! Shield shall be splintered! A sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now! Ride now! Ride, ride to ruin, and the worlds ending! FORTH EORLINGAS!

Odysseus

  • Galadhrim
  • **
  • Beiträge: 718
Re: Lothlórien Balance Discussion
« Antwort #8 am: 11. Nov 2015, 15:55 »
EDIT: On advise of the ET, I posted my topic here instead. I thought it was large enough to warrant its own thread, but it seems I was wrong.

Good day fellow Edainers,

I had a few issues I stumbled upon when playing with or against Lothlorien, and some of the upcoming points have already been mentioned before by fellow Edainers. I tried shifting tactics to deal with these issues, but in vain so far (4 games so far, 1 Gondor, 1 Mordor, 2 Isengard). The nature of these balance issues is such, that there is no different result depending on the faction I play with. I am aware that the faction is still somewhat in an early stage of balance, so hiccups are naturally present, but they would need addressment as soon as possible if only for the health of the competitive environment of the mod. Please be aware that this is not a rant or anything of the sort, but a global observation from both watching and playing with and against the new faction.

Although before I do that, I wanted to say that I enjoy most of the mechanics you gave to Lothlorien's units, and that the majority of the infantry and heroes feel accurate and are fun to use. Most of the standard units for both Lorien and Mirkwood have a variety of tactics and strategies to offer, so well done in that regard!

However, when it comes to the heroes and a certain unit, I sincerely believe that work has to be done. I would not say you dropped the ball on them, but you were close if it was up to me to say.

Now, on to points of constructive criticism I present including the corresponding suggestions underneath:


Thoughts on Lothlorien's remaining heroes:


That is it so far. I hope you will take the time to read my concerns as it took me some time to make this post. As it stands, I enjoy playing with Lothlorien, but playing against the faction has been a somewhat frustrating experience for me so far, something which I have not had that much with the other factions.

I look forward to your thoughts!

Kind regards,

Odysseus
« Letzte Änderung: 11. Nov 2015, 20:47 von Odysseus »
“For so sworn good or evil an oath may not be broken and it shall pursue oathkeeper and oathbreaker to the world's end.”

Walküre

  • Edain Unterstützer
  • Hoher König von Gondor
  • ***
  • Beiträge: 4.706
Re: Lothlórien Balance Discussion
« Antwort #9 am: 11. Nov 2015, 19:40 »
EDIT: On advise of the ET, I posted my topic here instead. I thought it was large enough to warrant its own thread, but it seems I was wrong.


As this is not a Brief Suggestions thread, there are theoretically no boundaries in length or width, if not obviously Reason itself  :)

The_Necromancer0

  • Edain Team
  • Beschützer des verbotenen Weihers
  • *****
  • Beiträge: 1.529
  • There is evil there that does not sleep
Re: Lothlórien Balance Discussion
« Antwort #10 am: 11. Nov 2015, 21:26 »
This is a copy paste from the comment I made on the OP:

Beornings and Grimbeorn
Yes, true to the bijillionth power

Thranduil & Wine Cellar Hero cost reduction
I'd suggest to merge those two into a single suggestion. So maybe a small combined nerf of both.

Hawk Strike
+1 for the nerf

Galadriel
She's pretty nice and well designed. If I wasn't trying to take over the whole of Middle Earth to plunge it into an era of darkness and ràise the ancient kingdom of Angmar I'd probably go have a little chat with her in Lorien.

Haldir
I don't think he should get an price boost. He isn't as good as Lurtz.

Celeborn
No price boost, maybe simply a little damage nerf, but the fact that he gets taken down quickly balances out his mighty power.
Come chat Edain on Discord: https://discord.gg/CMhkeb8
Questions on the Mod? Visit the Official Wiki: http://edain.wikia.com/

Elendils Cousin 3. Grades

  • Administrator
  • Ringträger
  • *****
  • Beiträge: 5.677
  • German, Motherfucker! Do you speak it?
Re: Lothlórien Balance Discussion
« Antwort #11 am: 11. Nov 2015, 21:54 »
@Odysseus: Why would you switch Galadriel's and Grimbeorn's cost exactly? I find both of them to be priced quite accurately for their performance, although I never used Grimbeorn that much.

+1 to nerfing Hawk Strike. I don't even think his upgraded version should be as powerful as this [ugly]

I'm not quite sure what happend when you fought Thranduil with Lurtz and Ugluk, but you should have won that fight easily unless he had his shield up. In that case he should have a chance since both your heroes were at level one and he costs 2400. That is quite a bit more than Boromir. And his damage output is still nothing spectacular, but very much average.

As for Celeborn being stronger than Aragorn, I'd have to disagree as well. Aragorn attacks faster, has access to the very clearly better swordmaster ability which is also at level one and gets a leadership and some crowdcontrol later on.


As for the beornings: They are very clearly too strong atm, but their strength against buildings needs to stay. Lorien has no siege except Ents, which are very, very expensive. Beornings in their human form fill the hole of light siege weapons (somewhat comparable to rams for other factions).

Adrigabbro

  • Gesandter der Freien Völker
  • **
  • Beiträge: 392
Re: Lothlórien Balance Discussion
« Antwort #12 am: 11. Nov 2015, 21:56 »
I pretty much agree with Elendils about everything.


"That still only counts as one!"

Odysseus

  • Galadhrim
  • **
  • Beiträge: 718
Re: Lothlórien Balance Discussion
« Antwort #13 am: 12. Nov 2015, 01:57 »
Thank you for the reply gentlemen,

Hmm yes, you guys might be right. I have been trying some alternative methods to see what helps and with varying success. I am only certain of Beornings being too cost effective so far. As it stands, they can combine a form of cavalry with knockback, light siege, anti-infantry and a decent form of anti-hero damage. Some features need to be tweaked or removed, I feel. They offer too much for only 350.

I am not sure what is exactly the case, but does Thranduil's shield completely nullify damage or reduce it drastically? If the former is the case, the 10 second ''invulnerability'' might just be the reason why there was little I could do against it with both Lurtz and Ugluk.

Either way, the Silvan Elves have some scary heroes if I do say so myself haha!
“For so sworn good or evil an oath may not be broken and it shall pursue oathkeeper and oathbreaker to the world's end.”

™Æ¿® Aragorn £ ‡™

  • Gastwirt zu Bree
  • **
  • Beiträge: 126
  • I can do quite a bit of coding myself :P
Re: Lothlórien Balance Discussion
« Antwort #14 am: 12. Nov 2015, 09:46 »
Beornings should cost 600-700. And I believe their human form can get some nerfs so you use  bear-form more often.(Perhaps weaker to archer arrows)
Sup :P