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Autor Thema: Lothlórien Balance Discussion  (Gelesen 97228 mal)

Aiphaton

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Re: Lothlórien Balance Discussion
« Antwort #180 am: 12. Feb 2020, 14:40 »
And adding the effect to the central spell isn't an option?

Right now the benefits of that spell are rather low and I'd see a similar solution like the one I proposed as quite interesting.

Walküre

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Re: Lothlórien Balance Discussion
« Antwort #181 am: 12. Feb 2020, 15:24 »
I, too, find myself not particularly fond of the faction's central spell, to be honest. It may be that I don't pay much attention to its inherent, strategic value (balance-wise), but I'm quite of the opinion that having two spells work very similarly, and summon enchanted trees which aim to benefit your troops on the ground, might be a conceptual repetition that we can easily do without.

Imbuing the current grand tree with healing properties, along with other bonuses of the case, could solve this sort of doubling of magic-natured vegetation spells. Refuge in the Wood would thereby have to go and be replaced by something else, whereas Elven Wood might be given more prominence as a result, being said feature supposed to embody the real soul/incantation seething across the realm of the Golden Wood.

As a necessary trade-off, a so beneficial tool will no longer be exempted from the risk of facing destruction by enemy hands, which makes it far closer in fashion to buildings than otherwise. Just my loose thoughts, anyway. I would be very glad to go through the matter a little bit deeper, if someone were down to it, of course.

Smeargollum

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Re: Lothlórien Balance Discussion
« Antwort #182 am: 12. Feb 2020, 16:06 »
Hello everyone!
I agree with you, Aiphaton, that the "refuge in the woods" spell is too strong atm. (I know that Elendil worte that it is nerfed for the next version, but anyways) I would't like it to put the healing in the central spell, but instead I would like it if the "refuge in the woods" spell doesn't give you any buff and just heals you units when they are out of combat and you can only place it near your own buildings.
Furthermore I would like it when the central spell would give you a slight buff, like the one AIphaton suggested for the other tree spell (+20% armor) so you have an "easier usage of this spell.
About the arrow volles I am realy unsure what to think about it and I don't want to say anything about it before I haven't tested it more.
Putting the heroes in the sancutry sounds intresting to me, but I don't know if it is realy nessesary, as you can build units and heroes at the same time, when you have enough money. Still I can't see a reason not to do it so I like it  :D

Walküre, I would be intrested in any kind of concept of your that might improve the uniqueness of the spells in the Lorien spell book.  :)


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Max_Power

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Re: Lothlórien Balance Discussion
« Antwort #183 am: 12. Feb 2020, 17:31 »
Hi Everyone! While it is a bit early to really discuss balance, but I agree with Aiphaton's post. Lets go through it in order:
1. Refugee in the woods (as Elendil said, it is going to be rebalanced, NOICE  (**)). I would emphasize that it should be destroyable for all factions (although there was a very strong reason for it being different, which I cannot think of right now).

2. The arrowvolley: I actually like the spell as it is now, but due to our beloved engine, the cast time overlaps with the off-host delay, resulting in almost impossible dodge timing. A very slight delay (less than a second) should suffice to reward a quick-reaction player that presses "x" or "r" in due time. That, or maybe reduce a bit the radius.

3. Right now, some buildings are packed with functions (upgrades, troop production, eco upgrades, pantries, etc etc). While it is interesting and certainly adds to each faction uniqueness, I wonder if it would be possible to allow Lorien to produce units while heros are being produced, either by moving hero or unit production to other building, or tweaking the citadel to avoid blocking. Mostly, because it is the only faction subject to this limits, and I don't see any reason why lorien, balancewise, should be blocked from troop production when producing (and specially reviving) a hero. It is not like their heros are stronger, and unlike other factions, Lorien is not capable of having more than one barracks (other than using an outpost, which is another topic).

4. Agreed.

MaxPower :D


Éomer Éadig

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Re: Lothlórien Balance Discussion
« Antwort #184 am: 11. Feb 2021, 09:11 »
Hi all,

I concur that it would be good to be able to recruit units and heroes simultaneously from the citadel. This is possible if you click the unit first, and the hero second, but not the other way around. It would be nice if this were possible.

Furthermore, I would like to suggest two small changes.

1. One would be that beornings in bear form do not trample trees, as it removes cover for the Lothlórien and Mirkwood units, and hampers them in using their abilities.

2. The other that ents are able to knock down trolls, as they were in the first game. Right now, a single, unarmored troll can take out any ent (that includesTreebeard) in a one v one, simply due to their higher attack speed. Since ents are slower, more expensive, and ought to be stronger (lore-wise), I would like it if they could knock down trolls.

I hope you will take my thought into consideration,
Éomer Éadig

The_Necromancer0

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Re: Lothlórien Balance Discussion
« Antwort #185 am: 11. Feb 2021, 09:47 »
The recruitment priority is not something that can be changed sadly.

1). I agree

2). I would be interested to know more about the context of the game in which you saw this happen. In my isolated test, both the Ent and Treebeard won when their fight against a troll. The troll only managed to win when it out levelled them.
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Birds

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Re: Lothlórien Balance Discussion
« Antwort #186 am: 11. Feb 2021, 09:56 »
1) Not Trampeling trees would be nice, though i don't see it as a big problem.

2) As Mordor it can be tricky to counter ents, since orc pikes arent upgraded and you almost never see firearrows. Making it more difficult for trolls to fight them doesn't make much sense to me.

Éomer Éadig

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Re: Lothlórien Balance Discussion
« Antwort #187 am: 20. Feb 2021, 11:12 »
The recruitment priority is not something that can be changed sadly.

1). I agree

2). I would be interested to know more about the context of the game in which you saw this happen. In my isolated test, both the Ent and Treebeard won when their fight against a troll. The troll only managed to win when it out levelled them.

I have now checked the 1v1 of an ent and an unarmoured troll and indeed, the ent did win it with just  a sliver of health left. It seems that I did not test extensively enough before, apologies.

I do still believe that an ent should have a larger advantage though, since recruiting one requires you to first build an ent moot on a settlement, which is harder to defend and maintain (cost: 700), recruit Treebeard (cost:2000) and then the ent itself (cost:1200), whereas getting a troll for Mordor requires a troll cage (in the base, cost: 800) and then a troll itself (cost: 800, possibly lower with slaughterhouses). Add to that the fact that a troll is a lot faster as well, and I feel like it should not be such a close fight. Lore-wise, an ent should also be a lot stronger.

I have not tested an ent against an armoured troll yet, but I do believe that the troll would win that handily. As for Mordor's counters against ents, I believe two orc pikes should suffice, no?

Greetings,
Éomer Éadig

Smeargollum

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Re: Lothlórien Balance Discussion
« Antwort #188 am: 20. Feb 2021, 13:38 »
You are right that trolls should get demolished by ents from a lore point of view, but I do have to agree with Birds that it would be really hard to counter ents effectively without trolls. Even though against a single ent "two orc pikes should suffice" it is a completely different story when the ent is not alone but brought either some other ent friends or just some normal Lorien swords and pikes. Generally single units get way harder to kill when there are more of them as they can cover each other’s back and stop the pikes from surrounding them. So, you either need really strong pikes or archers with upgrades, which are both lacking for Mordor in most cases, or you need strong single units that can take an Ent head on, like trolls, to counter them.

However, it could be a nice touch if the Ent heroes would be able to knock down trolls, as you suggested, but I think for the normal ents it would be too strong, because the main role of ents is not to be a strong fighting unit but a siege unit.

Another option would be to give the ents an active ability that can knockdown trolls or even heroes for a short period of time.


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Halbarad

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Re: Lothlórien Balance Discussion
« Antwort #189 am: 20. Feb 2021, 22:18 »
Zitat
Another option would be to give the ents an active ability that can knockdown trolls or even heroes for a short period of time.

I like the idea, it could also be part of a leadership from Treebeard for Ents and Quickbeam (excluding Ash Ents of course).