[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] Lothlorien Suggestions

Lothlórien Balance Discussion

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Odysseus:
Well, I think we are nearly there. They might just need a little bit more of an armour buff against regular or at the least defensive structure arrows. Although, arrows from defensive resource structures are much stronger than regular arrows of course, so perhaps it is somewhat fair. Ents are really powerful nonetheless. They can kick back, unlike other siege and they even have a way to fight from a safe distance when it comes to those arrow towers or defensive arrow upgrades. Being able to switch between those two modes is very versatile, and versatility is worth double. I doubt you'll really have the time to use the melee attack in competitive gameplay anyway, since there is much less risk attacking from range with Ents and they are the definition of slow, apart from Quickbeam.
Edit: Ack, I was beaten to it! :P

CragLord:

--- Zitat von: Elite KryPtik am 29. Nov 2015, 23:00 ---Ents are not "just siege" they can also slaughter units by the dozen, whereas rams can only hit buildings. Therefore, like trolls, they should be a bit more vulnerable to all forms of damage. Anyways, whats the point in sending in a single Ent? You send them in groups to keep them protected.

--- Ende Zitat ---

I know everything you wrote here, and I still think that damage is simply overpowered.
I sent single ent randomly, because while I play game I am in search of bugs in same time and other issues, I was looking for some graphics animation bugs with ents when I observed ent while he was moving (take a look at bug section xD).
And then I sent him in middle of base and noticed that.

Guys, I understand everything you wrote here, but simply in my mind, living tree shouldn't die under arrow burst no matter what you wrote here in balance terms about it. :)
Again, I ask you not to mind me wrong, I just wanted to point on something unusual in my opinion. Simply in logic, I don't see this justified that big walking tree is destroyed by buildings which are shooting regular arrows, that is all. But if there is no problem about this in general, I will continue using them from distance as I have done so far. I almost never use them in melee form anyway.
Again, I don't have problem with ent usage in general, I just noticed something "unusual" in my opinion, situation that arrows take down ent...
I look on this in similar way as on Flying units situation.
I have tested again today and noticed that 12 hits are needed to take down catapult (mostly wooden machine) by strong giant bird which should probably be able to take it down by 2 or at most 3 hits (I know this is probably not argument to call on in term of this game or mod, but in movie it seems that situation when nazguls take those Minas Tirith catapults is well constructed). Simply by my thinking that is also situation about we need further to discuss. I simply look on those situation in same way, and I hope you understand me when I say that in right way. Simply I am not experienced as balance tester, but those situation by my logic are not justified by any term. :) I just hope you can understand my view about this.


--- Zitat von: Lord of Mordor am 29. Nov 2015, 23:02 ---Ents never have to take damage from buildings if you don't want them to though, they can throw their rocks farther than any tower can shoot. So is turret damage a problem? It's easy to increase their armor, but I don't think it's a bad thing per se that you have to approach a heavily defended base differently. But I don't really mind either way, I can also see the point that siege-focussed monsters shouldn't get downed too easily by turrets. Ents actually have better armor against turrets already than most other units or monsters, but not as good as mechanical siege engines like rams or catapults.

--- Ende Zitat ---

I know LoM, and I always used them in "Throw rock" mode.
This was just random situation, as I have described in above, and I noticed something  very "unusual" in my opinion. From logic reasons I think this is I would dare to say "without sense". :) There is enough counter of ents in game, and I honesty think that regular arrows should tickle them, not to make pile of wood from them.  [ugly]
Again, I am not experienced in balance or PvP games, just wanted to discuss about this in logical way mostly...

Best regards,
Crag

Elite KryPtik:
Well, I am quite experienced in PvP games, and I can assure you they are strong enough. Any more armor and they'll be frighteningly strong, they are perfect right now as is. Again, if somebody is stupid enough to send a single Ent into your base in a PvP game, it should be killed by your defense, not be able to wreck your entire base by itself. Rams can be killed very easily in melee, this is not true of ents, they aren't even very vulnerable to Heroes anymore.

CragLord:

--- Zitat von: Elite KryPtik am 30. Nov 2015, 01:35 ---Well, I am quite experienced in PvP games, and I can assure you they are strong enough. Any more armor and they'll be frighteningly strong, they are perfect right now as is. Again, if somebody is stupid enough to send a single Ent into your base in a PvP game, it should be killed by your defense, not be able to wreck your entire base by itself. Rams can be killed very easily in melee, this is not true of ents, they aren't even very vulnerable to Heroes anymore.

--- Ende Zitat ---

If this is also statement from experience of other balance or beta testers, I am completely fine with that, but as I saw some of them are not sharing that thought.
I don't wanted to point on ents overpowering in this melee situation Elite, just wanted to point on "logical" situation here. :)
Also it is supposed to have upgraded defensive structures (arrows type on defensive structures, meant towers) in one way, when enemy comes with 2,3 ents (or even that single one xD) in middle of your base. And those upgraded arrows should wreck them not regular ones.
Again, I just pointed on situation with that one ent, and I mainly use them to do job from distance.
As I have said, if the rest of players are fine with this, I am fine also. Just wanted to point on this situation at first place. :)

Best Regards,
Crag

Elite KryPtik:
I wasn't able to understand most of that post Crag :(

Anyways the main reason I am against this is because, to my knowledge, its impossible to increase resistance against a single type of arrow. They would have to increase resistance against all ranged attacks, which is what I am against. If this is really such a problem and the team can in fact increase resistance against specific arrow types from defensive structures, I guess that's fine.

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