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Fredius War of the Ring Mission Maps
Fredius:
You're welcome friend :).
Walküre:
--- Zitat von: Fredius am 6. Nov 2016, 16:11 ---What I need is some ideas for different objectives that need to be done before you can besiege the fortress, ideas for objectives during the siege, and ideas for objectives to finish the siege. If you guys can help me out with this you will make a lowly mapper very happy :).
--- Ende Zitat ---
Sure, I would give you a helping hand to get through this scenario. Since I'm already working with one of your potential competitors, I would be glad to find other possible proposals and present them to the 'other' part. But, will this be fair competition or a monopoly in disguise for what concerns this chapter of the War of the Ring? :D
The_Necromancer0:
Ideas you want? Ideas I shall give xD Hopefully they are all possible, my knowledge of mapping being quite limited.
So what makes map fun to play (and replay) is having consequences, depending on a player's choice the map should have different outcomes, so here's what I'm thinking:
During the siege, Dol Guldur will get reinforcements from each side (I'm assuming you're using a map similar to the vanilla Dol Guldur), those reinforcements will be quite massive and will be hidden in the map's shadows to the very last moment UNLESS the player wrestles two signal fires from the control of Mordor, nothing too heavy maybe just a couple orcs and one or two towers protecting each. If they do claim the signal fire then the reinforcements army will be much smaller and they will gain vision of the entire map apart from the Dol Guldur fortress. They will also get a script telling them that an army is invading from the side they got the signal fire from they claimed. So basically:
Signal Fires left unclaimed = huge army pops out of the shadow, causing loss and slowing down the progress
Signal Fire claimed = smaller army comes out the edge of the map and the player is warned, giving them time to set up
So that's a nice little side quest, which influences the outcome and perhaps speed of the map, but that still doesn't give the siege much more content, what makes a siege interesting is minor tasks that contribute to an overall goal, perhaps the first scene of the siege should include a scene where a small group of elves of Mirkwood and Lorien attack the fortress and immediately get taken out by the boiling oil, the fire arrows, the catapult and barely make a dent because of the magic enveloping it, (despite the help from a couple Ents?). This gives the player three-four tasks to do (depending on what the Worldbuilder allows): disable the magic protecting the gate, destroy the place in charge of the burning oil production, disable the catapult and the towers (at least temporarily to allow for the siege to begin, allowing the ents to get close enough. I'm not sure how to proceed from there but I imagine it will consist of precise strikes on certain less defended part of the enemy fortress, ones that won't allow it to get closer but instead allow it to disable parts of the main fortress. This would be a main quest as charging straight for the gate would simply result in the full destruction of the player's forces, each time the player destroys a target the attack on the fortress will be easier. To avoid the player being able to use his full force (meaning an easy victory) I'd also suggest small attacks from time to time with small forces of orc on the player's army to avoid them being able to use their full strength on what it is suppose to be small side missions.
One last thing I have in mind, I feel like before they can actually siege the tower they need to set up a camp, where they can replenish troops, or just have somewhere to heal. So maybe that can be the first mission, to secure the surroundings and purify them with elven woods to gain access to build plots. Anyway, those were all my thoughts, I don't know how much can be actually done but regardless I look forward to this next map :)
Finally just a small suggestion for the Battle Under the Trees -Lorien. Perhaps the invasion force should keep moving towards the bottom left corner of the map to force the play to fight instead being able to constantly flee whenever the need be.
Fredius:
--- Zitat von: DieWalküre am 7. Nov 2016, 09:43 ---Sure, I would give you a helping hand to get through this scenario. Since I'm already working with one of your potential competitors, I would be glad to find other possible proposals and present them to the 'other' part. But, will this be fair competition or a monopoly in disguise for what concerns this chapter of the War of the Ring? :D
--- Ende Zitat ---
It's not a competition, there are no "better" maps, it's all just a matter of taste :P. Though your help will be appreciated!
--- Zitat von: The_Necromancer0 am 7. Nov 2016, 19:28 ---During the siege, Dol Guldur will get reinforcements from each side (I'm assuming you're using a map similar to the vanilla Dol Guldur), those reinforcements will be quite massive and will be hidden in the map's shadows to the very last moment UNLESS the player wrestles two signal fires from the control of Mordor, nothing too heavy maybe just a couple orcs and one or two towers protecting each. If they do claim the signal fire then the reinforcements army will be much smaller and they will gain vision of the entire map apart from the Dol Guldur fortress. They will also get a script telling them that an army is invading from the side they got the signal fire from they claimed. So basically:
Signal Fires left unclaimed = huge army pops out of the shadow, causing loss and slowing down the progress
Signal Fire claimed = smaller army comes out the edge of the map and the player is warned, giving them time to set up
--- Ende Zitat ---
--- Zitat von: The_Necromancer0 am 7. Nov 2016, 19:28 ---[...]perhaps the first scene of the siege should include a scene where a small group of elves of Mirkwood and Lorien attack the fortress and immediately get taken out by the boiling oil, the fire arrows, the catapult and barely make a dent because of the magic enveloping it, (despite the help from a couple Ents?). This gives the player three-four tasks to do (depending on what the Worldbuilder allows): disable the magic protecting the gate, destroy the place in charge of the burning oil production, disable the catapult and the towers (at least temporarily to allow for the siege to begin, allowing the ents to get close enough. I'm not sure how to proceed from there but I imagine it will consist of precise strikes on certain less defended part of the enemy fortress, ones that won't allow it to get closer but instead allow it to disable parts of the main fortress. This would be a main quest as charging straight for the gate would simply result in the full destruction of the player's forces, each time the player destroys a target the attack on the fortress will be easier. To avoid the player being able to use his full force (meaning an easy victory) I'd also suggest small attacks from time to time with small forces of orc on the player's army to avoid them being able to use their full strength on what it is suppose to be small side missions.
--- Ende Zitat ---
--- Zitat von: The_Necromancer0 am 7. Nov 2016, 19:28 ---One last thing I have in mind, I feel like before they can actually siege the tower they need to set up a camp, where they can replenish troops, or just have somewhere to heal. So maybe that can be the first mission, to secure the surroundings and purify them with elven woods to gain access to build plots. Anyway, those were all my thoughts, I don't know how much can be actually done but regardless I look forward to this next map :)
--- Ende Zitat ---
This, this and this are all possible, and I will take them into account. Though I'm not sure if boiling oil is possible, since there is no such object in Worldbuilder (afaik). I will just use the arrow volley instead then.
--- Zitat von: The_Necromancer0 am 7. Nov 2016, 19:28 ---Finally just a small suggestion for the Battle Under the Trees -Lorien. Perhaps the invasion force should keep moving towards the bottom left corner of the map to force the play to fight instead being able to constantly flee whenever the need be.
--- Ende Zitat ---
No worries, Lothlorien will get a remastered version someday, which will add more events and fixes the AI bugs. Ofcourse if you have ideas for these as well it would be great ;).
Walküre:
--- Zitat von: Fredius am 7. Nov 2016, 21:12 ---It's not a competition, there are no "better" maps, it's all just a matter of taste :P. Though your help will be appreciated!
--- Ende Zitat ---
I know, I was just joking. You know, more competition helps spicing everything up a bit more, and competition itself eventually favours the consumers/customers only xD
Now let's talk about the very suggestions. I really like Necro's proposals about objectives and the whole theme of dismantling Dol Guldur's magical defences and making your way to the citadel. Dol Guldur is in fact enchanted by Magic, and enchanted places are very much dissimilar compared to usual fortresses, for their integrity is entirely based on the power which sustains them. Magical properties that you must necessarily weaken and ultimately nullify, if you aim to take the fortress down in the first place. Probably, other effects on Dol Guldur could consist of more solid structures (temporarily strengthened by Sauron's 'memory', as Tolkien says) and the iconic venomous aura.
Furthermore, in cases as this, Magic (the heart of the force sustaining the whole stronghold) is generally mainly gathered in one central place, which is often the citadel; I guess that the prison of Dol Guldur, eerie monument representing the sorrows of all who were bound in its gaols, would be the perfect source of the malice emanating from the fortress and permeating the relative buildings. I will probably come up with more specific indications in a later moment. But I nonetheless wanted to address the conceptual aspects I'm always fond of. Just to synthesise one of the principal objectives: the prison ought to be torn down in grand style 8-)
P.S. Doesn't gaol sound really good to you as well? It's so old-fashioned that it almost makes me blush :D
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