Wow, amazing support and development for the Huorn suggestion I posted some days ago
Yes, it is pretty nice idea in first place about them. As you have said already, they are special "folk" in Tolkien universe and also in my opinion they deserve place in this mod because of that.
Cool idea with the spiders as a base for the animation, and on that note, since as you said, Craglord, using roots to attack could be derived from Shelob's attack animations perhaps? Since it would look similar, at least in my mind XD
It will probably be more fitting for bigger models like hoorns one. If this is of course possible at first place.
I propose that those Huorns senturies will attack anyone who comes near entmoot, but in presence of ents they will attack enemies. I just wanted to suggest this, but it is maybe too much.
I agree with this, since the Ents are the "shepherds" then it would make sense to show an active difference in Huorn behaviour when Ents are in the vicinity or not.
Regarding Old Man Willow, as I said in my original post in the other thread, I'd love to see him implemented in this game, but I am not sure the Entmoot is the right place for this. Mainly due to Old Man Willow having no affiliation whatsoever to Fangorn (at the time of the 3rd Age) or Lorien/Mirkwood Elves. I would see it more likely if he was connected with a faction supported or antagonist to the Shire (Rivendel/Arnor or even Angmar perhaps). With that said, if people decide the Entmoot is the place for all Ent and Huorn lore and galore then I'd be thrilled to be able to summon the "evilest" of them as well
Yes, if you are suggesting this " ent shepherd" thing, to current stance system it is something which could cause a lot of problems, but again I presume this, I really don't have experience to claim this with right. I know about lore facts about ents and hourns, so I suggested this lore facts, but honestly I really don't now how to use this fact in proper way in game. Maybe Ent could be in slave system with hourns as Orc battalions have inspection master in Mordor faction? When Ent "inspect" them, they became reasonable and attack only enemies or became controllable (if we take into consideration your suggestion about their passive appearance among entmoot) But again I would leave this "shepherd thing" aside for now. Maybe that stance system among ent "inspection" could work? But again I say, maybe is the best to leave this "shepherd" ent related thing aside?
Concerning Old Man Willow, I think this is good chance to implement this "mean" huorn in game. To be honest, I understand your reasons (geographical) and others not to have this huorn near entmoot, but in same way I think that team probably won't implement individual hourns on individual maps. So, I think this is good reason to suggest Old Willow hourn as part of this unique suggestion. And it have pretty nice lore facts which we could use for this suggestion in very nice way.
Again, those are just reasons of why I think in this way about Old Man Willow.
regarding the stances, I would say that Huorns should be immobile most of the time, but quickly become mobile and violent when the entmoot or nearby allied troops are attacked. Like I said before, with an actual Ent close by we could perhaps direct the Huorns' target. This would avoid a stance paradigm and make it more lore-accurate.
regarding the stances, I would say that Huorns should be immobile most of the time, but quickly become mobile and violent when the entmoot or nearby allied troops are attacked. Like I said before, with an actual Ent close by we could perhaps direct the Huorns' target. This would avoid a stance paradigm and make it more lore-accurate.
I agree about this, it is much more simple and I like it.
But beside this I would also like that we continue with stance system development, and at the end me could suggest both things, and team will choose what is more appropriate in their opinion. Or simply as you are maybe suggesting indirectly, we could maybe integrate some of those stances properties into this proposal of yours.
As for the Huorns' powers, well, when they are immobile they could give out a slow to nearby enemies and some AoE damage. Though it would be interesting if instead of spread out damage they kill 1 random non-hero minion every X seconds, so as to emulate the Huorns' dragging the enemy into themselves as seen in the extended edition of the Two Towers. If that's too much, AoE is also good. XD
When Huorns' can move, I think it very fitting that they can root units in place, just like the hero power, with slight damage over time to the rooted unit. Just instead of a red aura surrounding them, perhaps green would be better.
Well first, we were not precise in our previous proposal (this is all under developing and shaping
), so I thought that root attack in any of stances where it occur will be AOE probably with different area size. So I would probably support some area damage instead killing 1 by one soldiers from battalion, but again it is interesting thing to think about.
I thought about rooting as movement speed, because if they are rooted, they are in position to do some area effect work with their roots as you said, I suggested area slow in situation if they are using their roots for making tremors in that area or damage effect if they are using those roots like mangrove tree does in nature (I tried to get some inspiration from nature
). Also take into consideration that we suggested 3 hourns here, so because of their small number around entmoot I suggested more appropriate area effect on enemy units. If proposal of yours is implemented on 3 hourn, that means 3 rooted soldierss from 1 battalion in some amound of time with damage per second, and I think that is poor effect. If on other hand we suggest somehow greater number of huorns around entmoot (more of huorns which are rooted in circle around entmoot), then your suggestion about single unit root and damage per second is reasonable.
Concerning color of aura, I don't know where you find information about red color, I maybe missed that somewhere.
I support of course green color over red for any aura tree oriented.
a. Old Man Willow's Song
Units in the nearby area to the Entmoot are put to "sleep" (immobilized), this is similar to the spell book but it might need some uniqueness setting like a small life drain similar to being swallowed by the roots.
b. Ent Draught
Old Man Willow lets loose Ent Draught healing nearby friendly troops and Huorns. This will help strengthen the Huorns.
While I do agree with the Ent Draught ability, having suggested something similar myself before, I don't think Old Man Willow's song should be part of a normal Huorn's repertoire. If the Old Man Willow himself is present, sure, but otherwise doesn't make much sense. Other than that, lorien already has a "sleep" spell and I think rooting enemies in one place is more fitting I've suggested above, than as a sleeping song.
It also came to my mind that Huorns could be generated every X minutes after creating the Entmoot, up to a limit in number of course and on pre-determined spots. This would be interesting in order to create a thicket of trees/Huorns around the Entmoot, which could naturally slow and damage passing enemies, as I've said before. This small "forest" around the Entmoot would be fitting in terms of the lore and epic to just be able to call treebeard into the middle of the grove and have all those Huorns come to life to crush pesky orcs in one go.
Just another idea to be considered, but maybe it's difficult to implement.
Cheers,
Crimson K.
And this is part of your answer I liked the most.
Simply if persons approach to suggestion in right way, discussion is going in right direction, in otherwords getting better.
I agree about "Sleepy" spell with you. You are completely right, Lorien already have Mirkwood stream in their Powers Meni, and that obviously we didn't take into consideration.
But in same way, I think if we implement somehow Old Man Willow into this, this is lore fact we must use. So I suggest some compromise, we could suggest this "Sleepy" ability but in way it effects heroes only? In this way, I think Old Willow will became in some way a semi hero in Lorien, hero unit between hourns.
Concerning that last suggestion about hourns, it is also nice one, I have something similar on mind (I also suggested some reserved plots etc). So we should take it into consideration. Main problem for now is that current members of this discussion don't have enough technical knowledge about game engine, so we don't know is anything of this possible at first place.
We need some technical support if we want to continue this in proper way.
Regards,
CragLord