Ents

[CragLord]

About that: You might be right about this, but I see it a little different: It's not so much about reality (in which moving trees obviously don't exist), but about consistency (in which there are no roots which first grow extremely fast, catching moving people, but than can't just grow further crushing them). I hope you see the difference, because just realism is of course not important in a fantasy world. However even a fantasy world has its rules and must follow them, otherwise it would be just a random mess of randomness. Like nobody would like it if suddenly aliens invade Middle-Earth: Just as unreal as moving trees, but completely inconsistent.

I'm not really sure, what the repair stuff is about, normal buildings do repair themselves if left unchecked, so why not the Ent Moot?

Greetings
Melkor Bauglir

I understand you of course. 
As moving trees, we could then in "consistency" term tell that those trees are able to use their roots in proper way. Not to increase its growth, but instead to use it properly, I mean, move it properly with proper speed and in proper "angle" so it can damage or "root" enemy. This is just part of concept and I really don't know how closer to describe. 

[Odysseus]

@Melkor

The Entmoot repairs itself like a citadel. It starts earlier than normal buildings after having being damaged, and at a higher rate.

[CragLord]

OP has been edited, tell me if I have missed anything

I will try to sum all ideas of mine and those current suggestions and to put them on next " proposal list", and it is concerned only of huorns:

I) Animations and Skin

We were thinking of  animation of the spider attack and animation of spider move but with an tree skin as seen below:

II) Suggestions for hourns implementation in game:

• Stances Slave system as purchasable upgrade at Entmoot
  
  
  Huorns will be implemented as Slave System attached to Entmoot, which means hourns behave as neutral creaps towards entmoot as "neutral den". They can't move from it in greater radius.
  We had two suggestions so far, in both we have approximately three huorns as result. In first one as one of those hourns Old Man Willow is integrated, in second there is no Old Man Willow houorn, just approximately three regular hourns. As system those hourns behave as one unit and they have stances and abilities. Three possible stances and two abilities if Old Man Willow is integrated as one of them or one ability if there is no Old Willow in system.
  
  Stances are:
  
  

  • Defensive Stance
    
    Palantir button look:
    
    
    
    The Huorns gather around the Entmoot and "root" themselves (become immobile) from that point on they give out a large poison aura (similar to Dol Goldur but on a larger area).
    Or second mini suggestion concerning Defensive stance is that instead poison effect, they could have only slowing (movement speed or attack speed or both) effect to units around them. So they will be in this situation living barrier which protects Entmoot and absorb damage. This also meant there is no problems with visual effects which occurs with poison aura in game for now.
    In both cases this stance improves their defense greatly but their attack is heavily diminished. In both cases the animation on terrain arround rooted huorns could be little roots coming out of the ground:
    
    
    
    
    
    (For user Melkor, take a look, they are not using roots in defensive mode as tool with which they entangle enemies! They use roots to make "mine" field and after enemy unit step on it, they became poisoned or slowed in movement speed!)
    
    
  • Normal Stance
    
    Palantir button look:
    
    
    
    The Huorns patrol around the Entmoot but don't leave it. When they only attack if attacked (could fix the whole attack all units imbalance). They use roots that they use to hit enemies at a range (archer range) by travelling underground.
    Then concerning we suggested spider animations, this probably means that spider model will be transformed into Houorn, so that means that probably spider attack animation should be reconsidered as one of suggestions for Hour attack animation, and that basicly means that hour will use 2 of its roots for attack in melee. So this should be on mind also, melee root damage! And I also found it reasonable.
    There was also suggestion that if attack is melee, maybe they can have AOE attakc with lesser damage, or they can kill 1 by 1 unit in battalion per hit.
    
    
  • Aggressive Stance
    
    Palantir button look:
    
    
    
    The Huorns attack all units that come within range of the Entmoot (has to be Entmoot). They go up to the enemy and kill the battalion.  They have to behave like creeps even though that would also reduce their power. Aggressive Stance should grant them a 50% attack boost but no defense nerf.

  
  
  Now concerning abilities we have suggested two abilities in general:
  
  

  • Ent Draught
    
    Palantir button look:
    
    
    
    Ent Draught healing nearby friendly troops and Huorns. This will help strengthen the Huorns. That was first suggestions. There could be some combinations between effect on units/Hourns/Ents because it is not necessary to have effect on units, because Elven units have passive heal at level 2.
    
  • Old Man Willow's Song
    
    Palantir button look:
    
    
    
    Units in the nearby area to the Entmoot are put to "sleep" (immobilized), this is similar  to the spell book but it might need some uniqueness setting like a small life drain similar to being swallowed by the roots. This was initial proposal.
    I would change all of this as sleepy effect on heroes only, and that is all. Simply I am against this drain ability and right now in power palantir we have power Mirkwood steam which can be used on units, so lets suggest unique ability for Old Willow which is correlated with lore. So Old Willow sing on entish and make nearby enemy heroes sleepy (immobilized).
    Simply Old Willow will in that way gain some kind of Hourn hero role, and I like that. It is maybe OP, but there is always balance thing to discuss on, and cost value to make this balanced in final concept.
    

  
  Both versions of this system should have all three stances and Ent Draught as passive or active ability. And Old Man Willow's Song should be integrated as ability only in system with Old Man Willow as huorn.
  The Palantir look for system with Old Man Willow will look like this:
  
  
  1. Defensive Stance
  2. Normal Stance
  3. Aggressive Stance
  4. Ent Draught
  5. Old Man Willow's Song
  
  
• Stances Slave system as purchasable upgrade at Entmoot crossed with Ent's shepherd system
  
  
  In this case we are suggesting Ent shepherd role over huorns. So proposal is same as above, we have Stances Slave system as upgrade at Entmoot. Concerning Hourns they have same properties like in "Stances Slave system as purchasable upgrade at Entmoot" proposal above, but after they are completed as upgrade, we can't control them. They behave as neutral creeps and they attack any unit which comes near Entmoot (except Ents of course). In this way we have tried to use information from lore:
  

  His [Saruman] heart is as rotten as a black Huorn's.

  And to implement Ent as shepherd. When we produce Ent, he will be able to "inspect" huorns and after that they became controllable as one unit (same exist in Mordor with Orc Inspection system). After that we can use their stances and abilities as it is described in first proposal. Cost of Hours as upgrade should be smaller then in first proposal, simply because we need to use Ent as shepherd. Ent will be part of this unit and we can't use it again separately (same idea as with Mordor Overseers).
  
  Also there is possibility of suggesting same without Inspection system, which means that Hourns will be wild and not under our control while there is no Ent nearby, but when Ent comes nearby them we can control them.
  
  Because of rich possibilities of first two proposals (abilities + stances), they are mentioned as upgrade with reasonable cost.
  
  
• Hourns as final building upgrade through Entmoot leveling production system
  
  
  There are two options for this upgrade:
  
  

  • Rooted Mode Proposal
    
    This is proposal of making Entmoot as building which gain exp though production of Ents and Entish heroes. At level 3, Hourns as unlocked as final upgrade (as defensive upgrades to regular buildings).
    Hourns pop up on reserved plots over Entmoot, for example 5 Hourns pop up around Entmoot. They protect Entmoot with bodies and they can't move. We can't select them, they attack only enemy units, and they have AOE melee attack with knock back as primal effect. They basically can't move, instead they rotate in reserved place while they fight against melee intruders (I presumed they have spider basic attack, so they need to rotate so they can face properly attacking units).
    
    There is also version of this proposal which includes that Hourns, after Entmoot has reached level 3, start to appear around entmoot on reserved places (plots) during time. This means that first one appear after Entmoot is reached level 3. Second one appear X minutes after, third one X minutes after second one etc.
    
    Also I suggested that Hourns have melee attack (knock back effect) in this version and they have pure protective role. Weakness, they are hopeless against range units particulary siege, because they are rooted in place the whole time. They will have great armor so they could tank a lot of time, but weakness is they are rooted.
    
    
  • Mobile mode proposal
    
    Same mechanism as in Rooted proposal, they are melee units (now they have greater aoe effect with attack and deal area damage as primal effect of AOE nature of attack), which pop up on reserved places. They are not able to control, and they are attacking only enemy units which comes into their protection radius, and they are mobile. They are able to move and attack.
    Weakness of this mode is very low armor. So basically they are feral and able to counter range units but with price of low armor.
    
    There is also version of this mode, that they periodically pop up on reserved places after Entmoot is reached level 3 through production of units.
  
  
• Hourns instead Ents in situation when Galadriel accepts ring of power
  
  
  This is the most radical suggestion so far. We suggest new production list of units for Entmoot when Galadriel accepts ring. Huorns will replace Ents, because Ents feel corrupted nature of ring and they don't want to follow or help Galadriel.
  As we find in lore, properties of huorns can be classified as evil or corrupted which perfectly fits into nature of Ring of Power.
  So basicly Huorn is replacing Ent as regular siege unit. Hourns will have same properties as Ent, they will move slowly as Ents, will have regular unit stance system and double selective attack system (clone of Ents selective option):
  
  

  • Underground roots (which corresponds to Throw rock state):
    
    Palantir button look:
    
    
    
    Huorns will use their roots to damage enemies and building through underground, best example which I could give you is same attack as this feral zerg unit from this video: Link
    So root traveling speed will be same as Ents throwed Rock speed.
    
    
  • Roots on the ground (same as Ent melee attack mode)
    
    Palantir button look:
    
    
    
    Hourns uses their roots though air in melee mode. Same effects as Ent melee attack.
    

  Hourn Hero which will replace Ent Heroes is Old Man Willow.
  And if we start with developing this four proposal in general, then I will express my opinion about abilitis of this hero.
  In short lines, Old Willow will probably have Ent Draught as ability and Old Man Willow's Song ability. Also there are many other root oriented proposals in my mind, but I won't be much detailed now. If we in general decide to develop this further I will express my proposals and detailed opinion.  

III) Huorn Sound Pack and Sound effects

Concerning new sounds, I have pack for Hourns from game WotR, it is very fitting, lots of tree sounds etc. Concerning sounds for abilities I will personally make them, but I need to know what we need etc. I don't want to waste time until we get some official statement from team about this.
So this is not problem at all!

So, I tried to sum all which we discussed here, that this is list with my personal touch. What you think about this? What should I change or add?

Kind regards,
CragLord

 

[The_Necromancer0]

So, I tried to sum all which we discussed here, that this is list with my personal touch. What you think about this? What should I change or add?

I think it's all there, now we would need to had a statement from the team and/or from an experienced players for the animation and overall possibility of the suggestion.

[KingdomofErebor]

I absolutely LOVE this idea and you have my support, the only things I would suggest would be to make sure the huorns move slowly, they are dormant ents after all, secondly I think it would be amazing if some how, i don't know if it's possible but could Old man Willows face be put on one of the huorn models, just as a kind of nod to that chapter in the books?

Let me know what you think !

Baruk Khazad!

[IronSkye]

I love your suggestion and can only support this, but I honestly doubt that Huorns will be ever in game. If I remember right the Edain- team is against Huorns, they said in an old post (3.81 Lothlorien Suggestion thread) that placing Huorns in Lorien is abstract and not Lore like and complicated.

br Sky

[CragLord]

This implementation is for Lothlorien faction of course, but in same time this isn't 3.8.1.
I don't know what team have said for that version, but since then, they implement many different systems in game. We officially still don't know anything about team's opinion about this suggestion.
I really don't see why this will be some problem.
From lore aspect, we suggest huorns mostly for defence of Entmoot as slave system, that means they won't be regular units for Lothlorien, they will be defensive mechanism for Entmoot, and that is completely lore justified and correct.
Of course, I have collect all suggestions so far because of preview, but in my opinion Hourns as upgrade (purchasable or passive on entmoot level 3 as defensive upgrade) is mainly correlated to entmoot and it is lore wise.

Regards,
CragLord