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Autor Thema: Aesthetic Improvements for Lothlórien/Mirkwood  (Gelesen 18002 mal)

CragLord

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Aesthetic Improvements for Lothlórien/Mirkwood
« am: 29. Nov 2015, 22:28 »
Hello everyone,

Encouraged by idea of my previous topic from Dwarven suggestion board, I have finally decided to open this topic in Lothlórien section.
I am opening this topic because I expect a lot of lore discussion (I hope good one) about suggestions which will be proposed here, reasons why we should implement them in game etc. That is main reason why I want to separate it from "Brief Lothlórien Suggestions" thread. So in general, this will be a topic for "Lore wise" suggestions in the most cases which will be followed by good lore discussion and "rich" info content. I don't say that suggestions on Brief Lothlórien Suggestions topic are not lore wise or similar, just want to make difference between instant suggestion thought and longer prepared suggestions with solid lore analysis as base.
I presume that the most of suggestions will be graphically oriented details or complete new graphical proposals which are lore justified etc. 

Because of preview, I will orderly update topic with already discussed suggestions which will be collected on main page, while discussion matters will be included in other comments in topic bellow.

I politely ask companions of Edain to join me on this topic and share their thoughts. :) 

Best Regards,
Crag





List of Suggestions:







« Letzte Änderung: 14. Feb 2016, 18:27 von CragLord »

CragLord

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Re: "Cosmetic" improvements for Lothlórien faction
« Antwort #1 am: 29. Nov 2015, 22:30 »
    I felt free to post new comment now as first official proposal on this topic and first one need to have regular space for suggestion list.
   
    So as my first official suggestion, I will start with Lothlórien's tier one power: Horn of Ñoldor.
First what I really found inappropriate was look of area effect in game.
That is white circle with some (I think it is dwarven) strange symbol. It is not so common for elves.:)


So, I tried to find some appropriate "Horn" look for this visual effect, and I have found few good candidates but all of them were just "horns". Wooden horns, Cow looking horns, metal horns... Simply Elves are sophisticated beings and it was always strange to me that elf is able to use that kind of horn as regular war "gadget". They are more sophisticated then using animal horns similar to Rohan's one or even Gondor's "sophisticated" one. So I continue with my further search and I found one horn which is perfect in my opinion. It is official Lothlórien's horn model from Weta workshop which is used during during shooting Lord of the Rings:

Source link:
http://scrapbook.theonering.net/scrapbook/movies/characters/celeborn/view/8568

It is official Lothlórien Heraldic Horn, and I think it is perfect candidate for integration in that visual area effect in game.


As you can see from that source picture, it is in same locker with other offical Lothlórien items such as Celeborn's Necklace, Celeborn's Crown, Galadriel's Crown and Nenya etc. So I recommended this horn as official horn in that area look. No matter for team decision I have processed it and prepared it in form for integration:

Link: http://postimg.org/image/y6awr9vz7/full/

Also what is nice to notice on that picture is official small banner of Lothlórien ruling house which is attached to horn, or to be precise probably Galadriel banner. Official standard of Galadriel is on that banner. I think it is one more reason to implement it in game in this way. :)


that standard already exist in game on official Lothlórien banner but in a bit different color:


Now to my second part concerning changes of this power, I have to suggest that we change title of it. Simply Horn of Ñoldor is not lore accurate. I mean, in my opinion.
Simply Elves which inhabit Golden woods of Lothlórien are not Ñoldors. They are almost completely Telerin Elves. The Galadhrim or the Tree-people were the Elves, mostly Silvan in origin, who inhabited the woods of Lothlórien. Or to be accurate they are mix of Silvan Elves and Nandors.

Official link: http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Galadhrim

For "Division of the Elves" check this link: http://elvenesse.net/elves/elves.php

So in general there is no link between them and Ñoldors, except fact that Galadriel is Ñoldor in origin, and probably only true Ñoldor between them. Because of their origin and history facts (they never was in true alliance with Ñoldor, during second age and battle  Battle of Dagorlad they never fought with Ñoldors, they were always with their Mirkwood cousins. In other words, they cared about history, origin etc), I recommend that we change title of power from current Horn of Ñoldor to something like "Horn of Galadhrim" or "Lothlórien Horn" or "Lothlórien Heraldic Horn" etc
Simply Elves of Lothlórien will probably get more inspired in battle if they hear some of their own horn then Ñoldor one, no matter their leader is Ñoldor.

So, what do you think about this suggestion? :)

Best regards,
CragLord
« Letzte Änderung: 30. Nov 2015, 13:18 von CragLord »

Adamin

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Re: "Cosmetic" improvements for Lothlórien faction
« Antwort #2 am: 29. Nov 2015, 22:54 »
But since Galadriel is a Noldor, wouldn't that mean for the Power that the Horn is ordered by Galadriel and works as her herald?

Also the geometric symbol fits quite well to the name, after all the Noldor were very dwarf-like in their crafts and thoughts.

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Re: "Cosmetic" improvements for Lothlórien faction
« Antwort #3 am: 29. Nov 2015, 22:55 »
Pretty much agree. Accurate and well-reasoned, as is often the case with your suggestions.
“For so sworn good or evil an oath may not be broken and it shall pursue oathkeeper and oathbreaker to the world's end.”

CragLord

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Re: "Cosmetic" improvements for Lothlórien faction
« Antwort #4 am: 29. Nov 2015, 23:19 »

Concerning your first part of comment,
I can see, we probably can watch on this in way you described. In same way, Galadriel is Ñoldor, but that doesn't mean that her personal sound or "herald" should be Ñoldor's Horn. At fist place in this situation, she is holy leader of Lothlorien, in that term, her herald is probably Lothlorien horn. :)  But simply I think that name Horn of Ñoldor doesn't fit from many aspects. First origin, there is a lot of lore facts for those Telerin Elves wouldn't use official Ñoldor horn as their own. It is matter of their identity etc. If it is described as Horn of Ñoldor then it is Ñoldor horn...
Would they find that horn as more inspirational sound, no matter it is " Ñoldorin herald" of their lady instead some of their own? Someone which defines their identety long before Galadriel started to be one of their leaders?
Second, "history lore facts" they never liked Ñoldors in some special way and they never had any special contact with them. They just have Galadriel as their "holy" leader, while their main military/strategy leader is Celeborn, who is of Sindarin ancestry. I just want to say, I have suggested visual change, but firstly I wanted to change title of power. Visual proposal followed and I thought I have found perfect change because if it official stuff from movies and weta.
Simply those Galadrim Elves have their own marks no matter about Galadriel "spiritual" influence on them.  She is only link between them and Ñoldors. But that is not reason to power of faction should be called Horn of Ñoldor.
Simply name "Horn of Ñoldor" is too official and too general for faction which is not Ñoldorin in origin or any other way. And I hardly propose change of name of this power because of that. Ñoldor oriented faction will be Imladris, in history, origin and all other terms. So this name could be translated there in some way.

I mean, we could watch it also as "herald" of Ñoldorin princess, but also in that case, not matter she is Ñoldor, I really find current name too general for Sindarin faction in origin which has complete history correlated in Telerin term. Simply in that situation we can call it "Galadriel Heraldic Horn" or something similar but not Horn of Ñoldor, it is too general for Galadrim Elves. I hope you understand core of this proposal from my aspect. :)

Second, concerning your statement about visual change. Current one is dwarven, and personally I presume like the most of users, I don't know what that symbol presents. I agree Ñoldors and Dwarves are very similar in their crafts, but is that really reason for "Ñoldor named power" to have dwarven graphics or visual effect correlated in that way. I know dwarves build their letters from Ñoldor's one, and that runes are in origin Tengwar Ñoldorin, but again, I really don't see  dwarven graphic element to fit into Ñoldor power area look etc.
Simply using look of letters of Tengwar Ñoldor as secondary picture effect and some other elementary things related to Ñoldors (their weapons, armour, anvil (correlated with their craft) etc) we could make very fitting graphics for the most of Ñoldor powers from power meni, which will have sense. :)
But using dwarven graphics made by non lore related "vanila" game (in some ways) I am honesty against such things. With some creative ideas we could make much better for Ñoldorin Elves, but that is matter for some other time, now we are speaking about Lothlorien (And we have enough places where we use that dwarven graphic symbol in correlated dwarven palantir, so it is not eliminated at all :) ).

Now concerning my proposal, the most accurate name (with current description of power) is "Lothlórien Heraldic Horn" or "Lothlórien Horn". New look which is more sophisticated in design to the elves and it brings that elven touch. They  were not using animals horns etc.
But also interesting thing is that with that small banner (with Galadriel personal standard on it) look is perfect in my opinion. It is symbol of their "holy" leader, but it is oriented to Lothlórien not to Ñoldorin side of her personality (she is daughter of Finarfin, and that house have totally different sign), because of that I think that horn as new area look will be great. Standard already exist on unit banner in game, as I have pointed out. I think Galadriel started using this standard when she (with Celeborn) replaced Amroth as leader of Lothlorien. Because of that I think that new visual is totally fits this power, it is totally oriented for Lothlorien. :)

P.S.1. That is also official name of that horn in movie. Check source link, zoom picture on bottom. :)

P.S.2. In movies there was serious "lapsus" with those sounds, I meant why they used same sounds in general for elves(Rivendel and Lothlórien while for istance Mirkwood get new one). That reflected on this game also. PJ created fictional scene in second lotr movie and there we first time hear Lothrorien horn and after that we know it as Elven horn or to be precise Lothlórien horn. In hobbit it is also used for Ñoldor soldiers so I presume because of that you have also named this power in current way (and Galadriel ancestry was one more thing for that name).
Ñoldor horn and Lothlórien horn should be different sounds. But that is became to official as recognizable sign, so there is no point of discussing about sound change. But in difference of that (as we are shortened by one sound in movie), we should point on those difference between Rivendel and Lothlórien faction as mostly Ñoldorin and Telerin origin in places where we could. :) And this small change is one of those places where we can point this out. :)
And I think it is lore wise. :)


Thanks man. :)

Best Regards,
CragLord
« Letzte Änderung: 30. Nov 2015, 13:30 von CragLord »

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Re: "Cosmetic" improvements for Lothlórien faction
« Antwort #5 am: 30. Nov 2015, 00:03 »
Very interesting debate.

Galadriel is without a doubt the most powerful Elf of Lothlórien and its 'supreme' guide.
But, the particular thing is that she is herself an exception in her realm (compared also to other realms), being the greatest Noldo left in Middle Earth (and one of the greatest in general as a member of the original Noldorin Royal Family of Aman) yet being as well at the head of a realm mainly formed by Elves of another ethnicity and with another millennial tradition as it is the one of the Sindar.

Galadriel is the source of all the holiness of Lórien and sustains its integrity against the enemies and the action of Time; but I always regarded her as someone different from all the common visions we could have of a Ruler/King/Queen/Monarch intended as the head of the realm and personification of its whole history and culture.

She kind of exits these common schemes becoming indeed a real exception in Middle Earth, being not the 'regular' and traditional military and 'political' leader, but more a sort of stranger and ethereal divine being come from far mysterious lands as an Angel among mortals, and in the Tolkien I think that we have plenty of proofs that could determine this sort of exceptional condition, from the Years of the Trees to the 'current' War of the Ring'.

That's why I always see Celeborn as the true traditional and political leader of Lothlórien, being himself a military and political leading figure among his people and an important figure in the Sindarin tradition as once a royal member of the court of Elwë in Doriath (and that's why he eventually meets with Thranduil at the end of the War to redetermine the new borders of the greater woodland kingdoms of Lórien and Mirkwood, symbolising indeed his 'administrative' status as a political and military ruler).

Therefore, thinking that the fundamental and holy presence of Galadriel (yet consisting in an exception as written above) may infuse the realm of Lórien of any specific and particular Noldorin aspect in its history and culture would be a mistake, I guess.
The realm of Lórien is not 'intended' to carry on or be a representative of the millennial Noldorin culture and Memory Middle Earth, nor is it really characterised by significant Noldorin traits as the past real Noldorin realms.

Rivendell might legitimately be considered the 'keeper' of every Noldor-related elements left in Middle Earth, and the very few Elven settlements of Lindon as well.
But just not Lothlórien, since it carries on the equally great and millennial tradition of the Sindar/Nandor of Middle Earth.

Then, I support the change of the spell's title, currently suitable more for Rivendell than this faction.
But, I would also oppose to any involvement of Galadriel in it.
The strength of Galadriel and its relationship with her people is something really magical and unique, different from the other common examples that we have though great they could be  :)

CragLord

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Re: "Cosmetic" improvements for Lothlórien faction
« Antwort #6 am: 30. Nov 2015, 14:08 »
Well said, Walk. :)

I agree that Galadriel is without a doubt the most powerful Elf of Lothlórien, and holy leader of those elves, and that Celeborn is their more traditionally oriented leader.
No matter of Galadriel's influence on them, I really find (as I have described in detail in previous comment of mine) general title Horn of Ñoldor as inappropriate one for Galadrim Elves.
I will just once more underline something about this.
I think that current visual change I suggested is perfect because of freedom it gives.
First, it is obviously "herald" of Galadriel, because of that banner with her standard. But that doesn't mean it is Horn of Ñoldor, or it has any connections with Ñoldors, no matter to her ancestry.
In that time she is "holy" ruler of Lothlórien, so it is official horn of Lothlórien with standard of their "holy" leader. :) Nothing more in my opinion. :) Same is with their official banner. It is banner, it is not banner of Ñoldors, it is official banner of Lothlórien elves and it has Galadriel's standard on it as I have pointed out, and showed on picture. :)
Lindon's (Ereinion's one also), Imladris banners those are Ñoldor's official banners in Middle Earth (just for lore comparison). :)
In that way of thinking we could suggested new visual change as proper official "Lothlórien Heraldic Horn".

Greetings,
CragLord

« Letzte Änderung: 30. Nov 2015, 15:20 von CragLord »

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Re: "Cosmetic" improvements for Lothlórien faction
« Antwort #7 am: 30. Nov 2015, 15:42 »

So, what if it were named something like 'Horn of the Sindar'?
Lothlórien is the most powerful Sindarin realm in the War of the Ring (not that there were many more left at that time) and the most legitimate keeper of the Sindar's tradition.

I think that it would definitely be an interesting and very suitable lore reference  :)

I support a graphical change as well.
The current picture just doesn't indicate me anything so Sindarin (or of the Woodland Elves in general).
What about using the symbol of Doriath or a similar Sindar-related one, also to pay a tribute to the legendary Sindarin Realm by definition  8-)

There are so much analogies that could be made between Doriath and Lothlórien, and Melian definitely symbolises as well the 'angelic exception' I referred to in my previous comment, obviously with more legitimacy being her a Maia, but also 'subjected' to the authority of the real political leader as Elwë truly was.


CragLord

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Re: "Cosmetic" improvements for Lothlórien faction
« Antwort #8 am: 30. Nov 2015, 21:43 »

That is also reasonable suggestion. :)
Lothlórien is the most powerful Sindarin (I would say Telerin mainly) realm in the War of the Ring, of course mainly because of Lady of Light and her influence. :)
I want to say, that I like also this suggestion, and I have analyzed it in some way as you will see. :)
As we know first Elves who inhabited the woods of Lothlórien was mostly Silvan and Nandor elves. Later as you have said in second age, after destruction of Beleriand, many of the Sindar of Beleriand migrated eastward. Some of them inhabited woods of Lothlórien (or in that time woods of Laurelindórenan).
Sindar boosted culture of their Silvan relatives. Even Sindarin replaced official Silvan language. So influence on those elves by Sindar was great on them.
Later when last ruler of Sindar line die (Amroth drown in his attempt to reach Valinor), Galadriel and Celeborn guided those elves. Under their leadership, elves of Lothlórien prosper.
So when we sum all lore facts, "citizens" of Lothlórien in time of War of the Ring are mostly Silvan in origin (mixed with Sindar and Nandor) which were firstly influenced by Sindar culture and later guided by Lady of Light (and Celeborn ofc).
So there is enough reasons to call it Horn of Sindar but also there is enough reasons not to do so. Because of that I think that general name "Horn of Lothlórien" or similar title is the best. Simply they are mix of three Teleri families and there is no need to point out any of names of those families. They are know as Galadhrim, and they present Teleri mix. :) As Sindar inluenced them during second age, so Gladriel did in third age.
My intention here was to eliminate that Ñoldor term from title of power, as it was so general in my opinion of those elves and wrong. And I tried hardly to explain why I think it is wrong in general term of it (lore and identity...).
Now concerning visual change, I hardly disagree about Sindarin symbol. As I have said, picture I have suggested is official Horn of Lothlórien. And I think it is the best choice. First, finally I have found some horn which is elegant in shape and appearance, it is of elven taste (not some animal horn etc).
Second, there is small banner on it with sign of Galadriel. It is her official standard as ruler of Lothlórien (as I have said it is not correlated with her Ñoldor side), and it is present on official banner of those elves. So it is hard correlated with Lothlórien, and we should watch it in that way.
Horn look with that Galadriel standard doesn't indicate anything to Sindarin or Nandor or Silvan side of this elves, it indicates on Lothlórien as unity or them in moment of WotR.
Also concerning Tingol's standard, I think it is wrong, simply because there is no heir of Tingol to use that standard as heritage. Celeborn was maybe member of his court and noble of Doriath, but he wasn't his heir. So I think it is wrong from that aspect to use officail Elwe's standard in any term for Lothlórien. Simply if we had some offical standard of Celeborn, we could pointed that out and so pointed out Sindar side. But using Tingol's standards is wrong in my opinion. "Similar" situation with Galadriel, she is using her own standard as ruler of Lothlórien. She isn't using nothing similar to standard of Finarfin. Good example for comparison I think. :)
No matter of that opinion of mine I have created some version of this picture for "Horn of Sindar". I am against it!  xD  :D



In second version I used official standard of Tingol which is reconstructed from Tolkien scratch, that one you suggested isn't colored in right way. :)


I tried to use Sindarin in that picture, and I hope it is in good form and "meaning".
Again, I think it is not lore wise to use Tingol sign or to Sindar name about this suggestion. I have tried in first part of comment to describe that. :)
Also, Horn of Sindar is better then current name, and it is more lore wise. So if my initial proposal isn't good for team, I would recall on this one. After all there is enough lore facts to integrate this but I just think that global "Lothlorien" situation is just better.
So we have  second mini proposal also in some way about this if my statement is wrong about those Sindarin things. (Precautions from my side, I know that my knowledge about Elves isn't in your rank Walk. :P )

Edit: My "last" work about this:


I think that shape of horn with those notes is perfect as suggestion for this Elves who are 100% Telerin in origin, and they are known as music lovers in general, as Ñoldors were famous as craftmen etc. So I think this is my suggestion number one. :)

Best Regards,
Crag
« Letzte Änderung: 1. Dez 2015, 19:20 von CragLord »

Gandalf7000

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Re: "Cosmetic" improvements for Lothlórien faction
« Antwort #9 am: 2. Dez 2015, 15:34 »
Hello! I have a proposal about Lothlorien warriors. I think they should have not just swords but shields as well. I found this picture in worldbuilder : http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/members/243153-albums7922-picture104235.jpg  that indicates that there already is such a model of elven warriors with shields. I mean, c'mon even orcs have shields, but elves don't?
 I found the quote from Lord of the rings wiki about the shields of silvan elves:

 "Shields were also used by the Elves and highly decorated in Elf-fashion, like their armour. Not much is described regarding shields, only that they were elaborate and protected the user well. Like most shields, they could be used as a weapon as well as a barrier. Unlike the shields used by Dwarves and Men, which were short and round, the Elven shields extended from neck to shin and thus offered premium protection from weapons that could be swung and thrown/fired."

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/lotr/images/4/43/Shield.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/180?cb=20080707150834&format=webp

It is said that elven skills at forging weapons and armor surpasses the race of men.

CragLord

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Re: "Cosmetic" improvements for Lothlórien faction
« Antwort #10 am: 2. Dez 2015, 16:52 »

Hi there. :)

Well, there are nice proofs in lore (if this is true what you have said) for Silvan shield implementation. But those shields which you have proposed are shields of  Ñoldors (by weta and LotR movies). And those models of shields (almost same but whole in yellow) will be presented in Imladris faction.
That shield which you are proposing is very similar to shield of Gil-galad, and he was High King of Ñoldor. So in general if you want some good improvement for current Lothlórien swordsmen you must suggest some model which is related to Telerin elves or Galadhrim to be precise. Currently in weta works or any of Lotr movies I haven't see those models, but we shouldn't implement shields of Ñoldors for Galadhrim, that is for sure!  ;)

P.S So or to find some really corresponding models with description in lore about those Silvan Shields, or to make them using that description. But team shouldn't use model of Ñoldorian shileds for Silvan elves (Galadhrim) for sure. That is not lore wise, and as I said, those models you suggested will be presented in Imladris.

Regards,
CragLord
« Letzte Änderung: 2. Dez 2015, 17:45 von CragLord »

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Re: "Cosmetic" improvements for Lothlórien faction
« Antwort #11 am: 2. Dez 2015, 17:06 »

Well, I personally opted to focus on the reasons why we should choose 'Horn of the Sindar'  :P

'Sindar' doesn't obviously imply that this faction is indeed a totally Sindarin realm, nor is it intended to be a 'mere' reflection of what the lost kingdom of Doriath used to be in the First Age.
I chose it mainly to have another significant reference to a glorious moment of the Elven (Sindarin) History in the Ages of Arda; it's like a very symbolic memory of the past, that I definitely find more conceptual and appealing than a regular but very 'common' and generic 'Horn of Lothlórien'  :)

And, apart from this symbolic reason, as I have already stated above, the reference of Doriath might be legitimate as well, since Celeborn was a Sindarin Prince of the Court of Thingol, many people of Doriath themselves fled to the East founding what it would have become the Golden Wood in the Third Age, and the 'ruling class' of Lórien (intended as the mightiest and noblest Elves) was mainly Sindarin.

As usual, your graphical efforts are really remarkable  ;)
I like very much the Doriath symbol of the second version and the concept of the third version itself.

As you may already know, my Mind is a bit 'antiques-based', always seeking for past lore references to include when it's possible  :P

Adamin

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Re: "Cosmetic" improvements for Lothlórien faction
« Antwort #12 am: 2. Dez 2015, 21:23 »
Oh really? So a Noldorin Horn with a focus on Galadriel is bad, but a Sindarin Horn with a focus on Celeborn is okay? :P

Why not a Silvan Horn? ;)

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Re: "Cosmetic" improvements for Lothlórien faction
« Antwort #13 am: 2. Dez 2015, 21:39 »
Oh really? So a Noldorin Horn with a focus on Galadriel is bad, but a Sindarin Horn with a focus on Celeborn is okay? :P

Why not a Silvan Horn? ;)


Lothlórien is a Sindar-based realm, with a solid and ancient Sindarin 'ruling class', of which the Prince Celeborn is the apex.
So, taking for granted that the kingdom of Doriath is definitely the most famous and legendary Sindarin realm in this woodland kin's History, a Sindarin Horn might be the wisest and most conceptual choice, in my opinion.

While, although a Noldorin Horn for Galadriel could be logically legitimate, it would infer, I guess, that Galadriel is a 'common' political and military ruler of Lórien, as the other Elven Lords, and that the Noldorin warfare tradition is particularly strong and still present in Lothlórien.

Therefore, as I wrote above, Galadriel is indeed the leader of Lothlórien, but she's a very special exception.
The 'Angelic Exception' I explained above  (**)

A royal Noldorin Princess from Aman among brave Woodland Elves  8-)

CragLord

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Re: "Cosmetic" improvements for Lothlórien faction
« Antwort #14 am: 2. Dez 2015, 22:03 »
Or to be precise, Lothlórien is Silvan realm in basic, hardly influenced by Sindar culture (with smaller % of Sindarin then Silvan propulation), guided by Sindarin ruler and influenced (guided) by "holy" presence of Galadriel.
One thing is certain, Lothlórien as place is completely Telerin in origin.
Galadriel is only exception there, as Ñoldor.
Not to complicate thing anymore, I am against any Ñoldor term in name, tried to explain above, can't write essay again. :P
There are enough facts to call power Horn of Silvan, but I think there are more reasons to call it Horn of Sindar, because of that "great" influence of Sindarin Elves on those Silvan natives of Lothlórien. Also we have unique sound in game for Horn of Mirkwood which should be the most accurate place for horn of Silvan, because Mirkwood elves are almost completely Silvan in origin (and in time of WoR).
I am against both names, simply because I look on Lothlórien as "Lothlórien", place where live all 3 Telerin families, and I shouldn't point any of names in this case.
Because of that I was for general name : "Lothlórien Heraldic Horn" or "Lothlórien Horn" or "Horn of Galadhrim" etc.
I was also against that Tingol's sign, I also tried to describe that in my previous comments, but I created that symbol anyway. It was fun, and it is there if team find it as more lore wise! :)
In general, just to eliminate that current Ñoldor term.
And in my opinion I think that picture with only notes and horn is the best choice so far. No ruling standards, just horn of elegant design (of elven taste) with notes (pointing of Telerin love for music).
That is simply my opinion.  ;)

Regards,
Crag
« Letzte Änderung: 2. Dez 2015, 22:15 von CragLord »

Adamin

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Re: "Cosmetic" improvements for Lothlórien faction
« Antwort #15 am: 2. Dez 2015, 22:07 »
Not to complicate thing anymore, I am against any Ñoldor term in name, tried to explain above, can't write essay again. :P

And there's none needed. Don't worry. ^^
I'm just teasing. ;)

ringbearer

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Re: "Cosmetic" improvements for Lothlórien faction
« Antwort #16 am: 3. Dez 2015, 19:58 »
Crag, a little off-topic but gamlings peasants summon ability has the same picture as noldor horn , so you have new job  :D 

CragLord

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Re: "Cosmetic" improvements for Lothlórien faction
« Antwort #17 am: 3. Dez 2015, 22:49 »

Yes, that can indeed be "Cosmetic" change proposal but not for this topic.  :P   
I am focused right now on Lothlórien faction, and I will probably stay until I suggest everything what I think could be classified as "Cosmetic" lore-wise proposals or just "Cosmetic" one. So currently I haven't time for that.
Concerning Rohan, that is probably suggestion for Brief Suggestions Topic currently (sadly I was late there to open "Cosmetic" topic as I did for dwarves :P, but I will probably do that in future  ;) ).
Concerning that dwarven sumbol, I find it really not suitable for other factions except dwarves, and I agree with you that peasants summon ability should have some better correlated graphics. That area look occurs as general one used for many different abilities or powers, and I presume team used it because it is well know from vanila game, and it is minor thing so they don't have time for that game polishing beside some more important things to do for mod. :)

P.S. Similar ideas you can suggest on Brief Suggestion Topics, or open some "Cosmetic" topics by yourself if you find that reasonable (or wait me to open them in future :P ). Or PM me about those ideas, if you don't want do suggested above and I will do that in time with credit on your idea. :) Also with PM, we avoid those off topic comments. :)

Also be free to express your opinion about current suggestion, Walk thinks about Sindarin symbols, I am more for general one (name and picture).
If you have read previous comments, be free to express your opinion. :) And please if you decide for expressing opinion always give some reasons etc, simply because quality of discussion. :)

Best Regards,
CragLord
 

CragLord

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Re: "Cosmetic" improvements for Lothlórien faction
« Antwort #18 am: 8. Dez 2015, 20:35 »
Hello everyone,

I had some free time and I managed (with help of one fine gentleman) to make my first .dds file for this game. :)
I have made a look of area effect for that (currently named I hope) Horn of Ñoldor power. :)


I think it is simple, lore accurate and with decent look in game which is in my opinion better that current one. :) And this is look which I propose as change. If team find it useful, it can be implemented or used as source material. :)

During Gameplay, I tried to catch some shots (I think I have failed to catch the most intense one in color, nvm):


So what do you think about this?

Best regards,
CragLord
« Letzte Änderung: 8. Dez 2015, 22:29 von CragLord »

Adrigabbro

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Re: "Cosmetic" improvements for Lothlórien faction
« Antwort #19 am: 8. Dez 2015, 20:40 »
Looks nice. :) Perhaps a little too big if anything.


"That still only counts as one!"

CragLord

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Re: "Cosmetic" improvements for Lothlórien faction
« Antwort #20 am: 8. Dez 2015, 21:32 »

Thank you Adrigabbro. :)
Concerning size, I tried to minimize it, but it looked too small to me always after I done some dimension reduction.
I presume it is individual feel. xD
I think it is in good size in comparison with whole size of circle.
If team decide to use it, they will very easily adjust size and position of it, if these aren't good in their opinion. :) Or simply improve it in general.
On my first comment I have posted all source material.  ;)

Regards,
CragLord
« Letzte Änderung: 9. Dez 2015, 00:44 von CragLord »

Odysseus

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Re: "Cosmetic" improvements for Lothlórien faction
« Antwort #21 am: 8. Dez 2015, 22:31 »
It looks lovely :).
“For so sworn good or evil an oath may not be broken and it shall pursue oathkeeper and oathbreaker to the world's end.”

Fredius

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Re: "Cosmetic" improvements for Lothlórien faction
« Antwort #22 am: 10. Dez 2015, 20:52 »
I completely agree with these changes Craglord, and I especially love the image of the Heraldic Horn :).

CragLord

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Re: "Cosmetic" improvements for Lothlórien faction
« Antwort #23 am: 11. Dez 2015, 02:59 »

Glad to hear that. :)
Thanks. ;)


I am glad to hear that also. :)
It is so elegant and fiting in his shape for elves in my opinion.
Thanks Fred. ;)

Regards,
Crag
« Letzte Änderung: 11. Dez 2015, 03:08 von CragLord »

CragLord

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Re: "Cosmetic" improvements for Lothlórien faction
« Antwort #24 am: 25. Dez 2015, 16:20 »
Hello people,

Merry Christmas and happy holidays! :)

I have prepared a small presentation of palantir buttons for you today.  ;)  xD
This is cosmetic topc, so I have prepared cosmetic changes for Grimbeorn palanir button set.
First of all, I think that current button set is good, but it is not correlated in consistency terms with current look of Grimbeorn in game. Because of that I have tried to create new set which corresponds to Grimbeorn better in my opinion.
As Grimbeorn have been presented as "gray" oriented in color of bear and hair, I found some buttons a bit out of place.
Let's take a look of current  of Human and bear form:


So, I will start from first button, it is button for Human form/Bear form. Currently Grimbeorn is using these two buttons for this palantir slot:


First, bear form look isn't correlated to Grimbeorn's bear form. Current one fits to Beoringer bear form in color terms. Second, Human form button also isn't correlated to Grimbeorn at all. It is Beorn human form button. So, I have prepared next buttons for this palanitir slot,
For Bear form I have prepared this one:



Grimbeorn's Bear form palantir button


Button 65x65

This look corresponds to gray haired bear form of Grimbeorn. I tried to find some "fierce" bear look simply because "Grimbeorn" means "Fierce bear".




For human form I have prepared next one:



Grimbeorn's Human form palantir button


Button 65x65


I really find's current human form button out of place. It is correlated to Beorn's game look. Grimbeorn as unique hero and character deserves new one which is more correlated to his current look. I have tried to use some shotcuts from game, but sadly I couldn't create good button. I think this proposed one is decent, and it corresponds in color term very nicely to current game look. There is gray color of beard and hair as brown color of tunic which Grimbeorn wear in game currently.




Now, to take a look on Deadly Bite button in game:



Again, I found a color dismatch here. Button is really good, but Grimbeorn is gray bear not brown one.
So I have just tried to improve that.

For Deadly Bite button I have prepared this one:



Grimbeorn's Deadly Bite palantir button


Button 65x65




And for the last button, War Cry one.
Currently in game this button is same for Grimbeorn and Beorn. Current one is this:



No matter how much epic is that german chief from Gladiator movie xD, I really find this picture is color terms a bit out of place for "Gray" Grimbeorn.
So I have tried to find some picture which is similar to current one, but more corresponding in color terms. I think I have found a good one, which correpsonds to Grimbeorns better in color terms:



Grimbeorn's Battle Cry palantir button


Button 65x65

This picture is more correlated to Old Fierce Grimbeorn then a current one. They are similar, but first one because of Black color and beard is more correlated to Beorn's lore description. This button maybe looks a bit different then Grimbeorn in game currently, but I think it fits nicely to nature of ability which is battle cry, and beside that it fit in color term nicely to Grimbeorn description.




Concerning palantir portrait and selective button, I have found them really unique and cool, so I haven't change them. Maybe some minor change which could be applied to them is to make bear side more gray in color. Simply small consistency change. :)

Now, I also checked some Beorn's palantir buttons, and I have found some buttons which should be changed according to my opinion. I posted that proposal to my Dwarven minor cosmetic topic where it belongs: Link


I hope you will find this proposal of mine interesting and reasonable.
What do you think about this? :)
Please share your opinions and suggestions about impovements.

Best regards,
CragLord
« Letzte Änderung: 25. Dez 2015, 18:32 von CragLord »

giwrgosol

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Re: Aesthetic Improvements for Lothlórien/Mirkwood
« Antwort #25 am: 31. Jan 2016, 19:39 »
Anyone else thinks that galadhrim warriors need bigger bows and arrows like in the movie adapation of The Lord Of The Rings The Two Towers ?

Maraelion

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Re: Aesthetic Improvements for Lothlórien/Mirkwood
« Antwort #26 am: 1. Feb 2016, 06:43 »
Not necessarly, their bows are just fine.

giwrgosol

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Re: Aesthetic Improvements for Lothlórien/Mirkwood
« Antwort #27 am: 1. Feb 2016, 11:54 »
But they are not longbows.In the movies the bows are like in the height of  the archers and in game are so small like shortbows.

Ealendril der Dunkle

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Re: Aesthetic Improvements for Lothlórien/Mirkwood
« Antwort #28 am: 1. Feb 2016, 11:57 »
Keep in mind that larger bows wont work with the animations.

giwrgosol

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Re: Aesthetic Improvements for Lothlórien/Mirkwood
« Antwort #29 am: 1. Feb 2016, 19:23 »
i don't know about animations :P You and edain team are  very good on these ;-) I say this because i saw it in other mod that they had bigger bows and they were more good looking because they were like in the movie and it is more lore-wise that elves had long bows as expert archers and not shortbows.

Odysseus

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Re: Aesthetic Improvements for Lothlórien/Mirkwood
« Antwort #30 am: 1. Feb 2016, 22:33 »
Creating animations is a lot of work. Doing all that for such a small aesthetical improvement is  a poor trade for ET's craftmanship and I dare say, perhaps even a waste of time. 
“For so sworn good or evil an oath may not be broken and it shall pursue oathkeeper and oathbreaker to the world's end.”

giwrgosol

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Re: Aesthetic Improvements for Lothlórien/Mirkwood
« Antwort #31 am: 2. Feb 2016, 20:30 »
First of all I didn't say it is a priority.Second , this post is for little aesthetic improvements for lothlorien so with your logic all are " a waste of time " because they have to spend time for them.

Odysseus

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Re: Aesthetic Improvements for Lothlórien/Mirkwood
« Antwort #32 am: 2. Feb 2016, 21:18 »
Aye, this topic is at the moment, a waste of time. ET has to work on more important things because the mod is not out of the demo phase and there are many bugs to fix, translations to make etc. They even said that, regarding skins, requesting improvements is  relatively unnecessary, because if ET wishes to change these things then they do so. Perhaps when this mod is considered to be in a somewhat ''finished'' state, will a topic of this sort possess any proper value.

Unless! You are named Craglord for instance, he makes aesthetical improvements regarding icons, and passes them to the team, who then only have to implement them. A great way to contribute to the mod, as well as saving ET time to focus on more important matters. That's what I call a good trade :).
“For so sworn good or evil an oath may not be broken and it shall pursue oathkeeper and oathbreaker to the world's end.”

CragLord

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Re: Aesthetic Improvements for Lothlórien/Mirkwood
« Antwort #33 am: 13. Feb 2016, 23:39 »
Hello people! :)

I see some interesting topics and suggestions have been disscussed in meanwhile. :)
Today I have one interesting aesthetic proposal for you guys.
I managed to find some free time in past few days, and I have created one dds file for elven precious power : "Star of Earendil".
Concerning lore, I really haven't any complaint about current dds file. Star shape for Star of Eärendil. But as similar pattern has already been used for Star of the Dúnedain, I really think this power deserves something unique. So I have created new more appropriate dds (in my opinion):


Ring text is written in Quenya, it is famous quote.
Translation:
Zitat
Hail Earendil, brightest of stars,
over Middle-Earth to men sent
and loyal radiance of the sun,
bright beyond the stars, every time
from thyself always you illuminate.

Callligraphy originaly was made by Maria Morelen, I have just adjusted it for circled shape. Eärendil's vessel has been created by myself, according to famous work of Ted Nasmith, "The Shores of Valinor" , and according to original Tolkien heraldry of Eärendil.
Look from game: Link.

I hope you will guys find this usefull and reasonable. :)

Best regards,
CragLord
« Letzte Änderung: 14. Feb 2016, 00:09 von CragLord »

Odysseus

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Re: Aesthetic Improvements for Lothlórien/Mirkwood
« Antwort #34 am: 13. Feb 2016, 23:46 »
Phenomenal! As always :).
“For so sworn good or evil an oath may not be broken and it shall pursue oathkeeper and oathbreaker to the world's end.”

helloa2134

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Re: Aesthetic Improvements for Lothlórien/Mirkwood
« Antwort #35 am: 14. Feb 2016, 00:26 »
It's gorgeous Crag.  This may be your best work.  I think this piece of art definitely deserves to be included in the mod.  My only question is how it will look with the intense fx on it, but that's easy to work around.

CragLord

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Re: Aesthetic Improvements for Lothlórien/Mirkwood
« Antwort #36 am: 14. Feb 2016, 18:28 »
Thank you guys! :)
Helloa, did you think something like this?
I will add picture for dds as propsal in list of suggestions in first comment.

Regards,
CragLord
« Letzte Änderung: 14. Feb 2016, 18:31 von CragLord »

Walküre

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Re: Aesthetic Improvements for Lothlórien/Mirkwood
« Antwort #37 am: 14. Feb 2016, 18:41 »
Hi, Crag  :)

The picture is simply wonderful – a true message of Hope and salvation as Eärendil's White Ship is indeed – and I'm sure it would significantly add something more in the game.
I am quite speechless  (**)

Beware, the other factions could get a bit jealous if you focus your attentions on our beloved Lothlórien  :D

Greetings  ;)

Spacetyrant93

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Re: Aesthetic Improvements for Lothlórien/Mirkwood
« Antwort #38 am: 14. Feb 2016, 19:12 »
A simply magnificent picture indeed Craig, worthy of the greatness and splendor of Earendil and Vingilot. It looks great both in itself and ingame, it would be spectacular.

Great work, as usual.  :)

CragLord

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Re: Aesthetic Improvements for Lothlórien/Mirkwood
« Antwort #39 am: 14. Feb 2016, 19:21 »

Thanks Walk! :)
I have expected you.  ;) :D
I am glad you like it. Don't worry, I will try to help with polishing of other factions too, according to my free time. :)  ;)

Regards mate!
Crag


Thank you very much!
I am glad to see positive feedback from you guys. :)

Regards,
CragLord


Thanks for kind words!
I am glad you like and support new proposal. :)

Greetings,
CragLord
« Letzte Änderung: 15. Feb 2016, 00:27 von CragLord »

Celebrimbor

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Re: Aesthetic Improvements for Lothlórien/Mirkwood
« Antwort #40 am: 14. Feb 2016, 19:33 »
CragLord
Thats really awesome i thank you for your Work that you have done.
I hope that i see that later in the game!