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Autor Thema: Agandaur for Angmar  (Gelesen 6156 mal)

sr_dark

  • Thain des Auenlandes
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Agandaur for Angmar
« am: 2. Dez 2015, 17:36 »
Greetings Community:

Today i want to propose you and the team of course the chance of creating the War in the North villain Agandaur as a hero for Angmar.  :)

On a cool faction as Angmar that is mainly done by interpretation and has non canonical features, I think Agandaur because of his characteristics, past and links with the faction would fit perfectly on it.

First of all, although his most relevant participation was in the war of the ring as a leader of the dark forces (third age) and the Angmar events took place 1000 years before, let us remember that he is no ordinary man, his power is directed linked with Sauron's, which is why when the ring is destroyed, he vanishes. So from the point of him being alive back then is not a problem. As the same Guardians or Middle Earth description in-game points out: ''In the Witch-king's absence, the mysterious Agandaur serves as the right hand of Sauron in the north. Little is known of this man, save that his wicked has spanned thousands of years.

Besides he is a Black Numenorean who took posetion of Fornost and commanded from Carn Dûm (former capital of Angmar), which is why I think it has a meaning to him and it wouldnt be all that crazy to think he was a sever of the Witchking of Angmar and was alive and involved with the faction back then. Plus there's a part when he meets the Witchking and is commanded to ''return at once and prepare your forces, we will have need of them soon''. Suggesting a past link aswell between the two, besides the fact that they alredy know each other. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZOm409GP_8)

So as there is antecedence that can link him with Angmar and the WitchKing, and the only record we have of him suggests he was alive back then and is a Black Numenorean, and the faction allows him being introduced even when not being cannonical; I think that even not as the leader, people would be more than happy to see him as a server of the Iron Crown :D

Cheers!
 

Adamin

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Re: Agandaur for Angmar
« Antwort #1 am: 2. Dez 2015, 22:01 »
If we would create Angmar anew and abandon every Edain-Lore that we created for it in the last years, I would totally be fond of your idea. It does sound plausible that a younger Agandaur might have been around back in Angmar and might have played some role in its history.

But yeah, since we already have a full hero roster packed full with characters that have grown on/with us for Angmar, I don't really see a good place for Agandaur in there for now.

Plus, a younger Agandaur would definetly be different from how we know him from WitN. So if you wanted his exact likeness and abilities in Edains Angmar, that wouldn't satisfy you. ;)

sr_dark

  • Thain des Auenlandes
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Re: Agandaur for Angmar
« Antwort #2 am: 3. Dez 2015, 00:27 »
Makes sense, those characters must have meaning for you, anyway, if in the future you decide to trade one of those characters or add, Agandaur is a quite strong candidate :)

Anyway, i know he wouldnt be as powerful it wouldnt make much sense since he was infact younger thus less experienced. As long as his design was kept it would be fair.

However, if the team would be so kind and if its not too much to ask, it would be amazing if you could maybe add his design to Create a Hero and why not, if possible, some of his powers too.

Thanks for reply and hope you consider the idea! ;)

BalkanLuka

  • Bilbos Festgast
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Re: Agandaur for Angmar
« Antwort #3 am: 3. Dez 2015, 16:36 »
I personaly think that the DESIGN and LOOK of Agandaur should be added as a create-a-hero option so that there would be no problem concerning his timeline, origin...
Also he could be avaliable to all evil factions, not just Angmar, i posted a similar sugestion here, the update on the sorceror class thread with some portrait and sound files and a proper reasoning on how to implement him and i think that Sr-Dark might like this idea.

So a CAH Agandaur wouldnt clash with the Angmar hero roster.

CragLord

  • Gast
Re: Agandaur for Angmar
« Antwort #4 am: 3. Dez 2015, 22:24 »
Sincerely, I find current CaH about Angmar  in mess, but justified mess maybe.
I think that these two subclasses, Commander of Carn Dum and Black Numenoreans are same in general. You can build them in different way, but I somehow always imagine some powerful Black Numenorean as Commander of Carn Dum (Beside main heroes etc. And Black Numenoreans are described as highest servants of Witch King, so I really see them as Commander (s) of Carn Dum, but no matter on that, two classes are ok if we take into consideration that Sorcerer class which also can be used for in term of Angmar belong to wizard sub mod). Currently, Commander of Carn Dum is mainly described with merciless warriors of high skill who slay enemies with steal (and skill). So based on description, we should build him as strong melee warrior with out any ability of dark arts (dark magic). And currently in selective abilities list there number of abilities oriented to dark magic and warrior (no magic oriented) is pretty equal.
In my opinion, the best way to integrate Agandaur in this mod is for Black Numenoreans subclass. Simply currently in CaH they represent warriors with dark arts experience. Agandaur is also Dark Numenorean in that game WitN ( He uses big sword and casts lightnings in game, but lightnings which aren't natural thing :) ).
Maybe he is Dark Numenorean which could also be classified as Dark Wizard or Dark Sorcerer in this game, because of his art in lightning arts, but current situation in mod is that all correlated for Wizards and their magic is implemented in that Wizard Sub mod. So in general, for wishes of some people I think that adding all equipement parts of Agandaur skin for Black Numenoreans subclass will be good thing and compromise, ofc if team members find time for this or intention at first place (Sincerely, if next faction is Angmar I think it is good time for this CaH improvement. :) ).
Also Black Numenoreans subclass need some more attractive and better palantir picture (currently it is used some of vanila wizard), so Agandar picture can be implemented there. And BalkanLuka has provided some good pictures of Agandaur. :)

For BalkanLuka:

Also about new sound pack, it is good one, just I am curious, did you extract it from game files or you recorded in some other way? Because there are lot of background effects in those files, and in my experience with other games, sound files are in the most cases recorded without background effects, and later in game they are mixed with other files which provide that music in background etc. So if you haven't extract them from game files from your WiTN install folder, maybe try to do so. Result will be much better quality of those files and that means better files for this game.
Also equivalent files must be provided for German side.

Greetings,
CragLord
« Letzte Änderung: 4. Dez 2015, 01:46 von CragLord »

BalkanLuka

  • Bilbos Festgast
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Re: Agandaur for Angmar
« Antwort #5 am: 4. Dez 2015, 01:52 »
Crag Lord

I suport your idea  :),especialy that the palantir pictures should be updated as one is the vanila bald wizard and the other is the Angmar dark knight unit from 3.81, the wizard looks ugly and the dark knights should be unique only to the unit, not both. Also your second idea,that at least one of the black numenorian heroes should be updated, maybe even model replaced as there already exist agandaur models-that just need to get the exchangeble equipment, as for the abilities i think that the black numenorians just need a mount spell as all others spells fit nicely, we have the souls leech ability, the bonus damage and weakening aura so they all fit to either a leader type hero or debuff caster type and there is no need  to bother the Eteam with making new lightning spells, only the Mmounth of Sauron should have the morgul lightnong so that they could be different from each other.

As for the sound files, i dont have WITN installed, instead i just took them from a gameplay video, croped into 14 parts, edited the beging and ending of some snipets to be more faded out, enhanced volume and slightly removed some background noises because over-removing them makes the whole voice-clip sound more robotic and strange, i know that some parts have a high background tone, but i tried to keep it as tolerable as i could, just as some clips of Aragorn and Bilbo have music or fighting sound playing in the background.

As for the german files, they existed in the version of edain before  the Lorien patch, they used it as the voice of the CAH Dark Commander and Sorceror, and had almost the same voice text, like- these land will soon know the dark lords wrath, you... fled with the rest of your cowardly kinn....learned at the hand of the dark lord...

Until the elves patch replaced that perfectly fiting german voice with a samurai one from Shogun 2 total war, which was the basic reason why i even made the files and portrait as i found it unfiting compared to the previous one which was excellent.

If they lost those files i might make the german ones too, but they might be of lower quality as the sound on the german gameplay videos isnt the best and they dont have the final end-game part, only the Sarn Ford and Fornost but no Carn-Dum.

Luka

« Letzte Änderung: 4. Dez 2015, 01:57 von BalkanLuka »

CragLord

  • Gast
Re: Agandaur for Angmar
« Antwort #6 am: 4. Dez 2015, 14:20 »
Hello Luka,

Yes, as I have said, that "bald wizard with blue flaming eyes" from vanila as palanitir portrait for Black Numenorean subclass is a but out of place. :) I would also like to see that 
Concerning models for CaH (as you know I presume models and skins are two different terms :) ), same model is used for both Commander of Carn Dum and Black Numenoreans subclass. I haven't suggested any new model for one of them, I only have expressed my opinion that those 2 classes are same thing in some way, and simply there is some "not usual" (I dare to say not logic) situation in my opinion.
Why should class as "Comander of Carn Dum" (I am thinking about term Commander of Carn Dum) be simple strong warrior without knowing dark arts etc. And in same time Dark Numenorean subclass is  also warrior subclass with bonus of those dark arts. So in general, I wanted to express that Commander of Carn Dum should probably be some Dark Numenorean. :) But that is only my way of thinking. :P If we on other hand look on Commander of Carn Dum as only commander of regular (no dark arts knowing) soldiers of Carn Dum then name is on its place.

Now concerning new model, I really didn't know that Agandaur's model exists. I presume it is from some other mods or users, but not in edain for sure.
I agree with you, I also think that new model could be added instead one of two existing ones. Simply I think that have sense, especially for Black Numenorean (Current model which is same for both classes fits more in description of that Commander of Carn Dum if we look him as typical warfare commander).
So, I agree new model will be great for Black Numenorean along new palatir portrait. At least I sincerely think that team with or without new model for Black Numenorean subclass should try to add those Agandaur equipement parts, simply I think that is not too much and it is nice compromise for people whose like it. :)
As you notes on your topic, similar situation was with dwarven CaH, and after adding that new model, and new palantir portraits, situation is much better. I agree about this. :)
Also Agandaur will be classical Black Numenorean, so yes, no lightning for him. :P

Now concerning sounds, I really don't know about situation of sound packs before and current one concerning those subclasses.
Simply, I share opinion that Agandaur's pack is very nice for subclass Dark Numenorean. :)  Main problem now is bad quality of files you have proposed, mainly because they have a lot of background effects and that will probably reflect in this game in bad way. So I suggest you to install game and try to extract those files from instalation folder. Those files will probably be of very good quality.
I presumed you have recored them (or took) from some gameplay video etc. Simply background effects will destroy quality. You can try to eliminate them, but from my experience, probably there won't be some great improvement.
If you don't know how to do this stuff from game install folder I will try, but main problem is my almost full HDD... xD :P

If german files already existed, then I presume there won't be problems in that terms. :) And team probably isn't lost those files, they just stopped using them, maybe because of their quality, I really don't know because I haven't tried those classes earlier. :)


P.S. Лука, ако имаш неке недоумице око звучних фајлова, можемо веома детаљно да дискутујемо путем ПМ-a или скајпа, још боља ствар је то што ћемо да дискутујемо на матерњем језику. :)
Иначе видим да си веома посвећен идеји и то веома детаљно, подржавам те, и мислим да је твоја идеја оправдана. :)
Поздрав


Regards,

CragLord
« Letzte Änderung: 4. Dez 2015, 14:25 von CragLord »

sr_dark

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Re: Agandaur for Angmar
« Antwort #7 am: 4. Dez 2015, 18:28 »
Count me on board with those things, Agandaur at least deserves to be implemented in a way. Although I would like to remind you that the original point of making that Carn Dûm class and stuff according to the team, was to introduce in another way the magic that was lost by removing the wizzard class (by lore and canon reasons, not because they don't like magic). So i think it would be fair to give them some more magical spells (darker than wizzard class ofc) as well, as they were originally intended to be, they deserve it.

Cheers!

CragLord

  • Gast
Re: Agandaur for Angmar
« Antwort #8 am: 4. Dez 2015, 18:53 »
I just gave my opinion about Commander of the Carn Dum.
In general nothing is wrong with class. In description it is said that it is experienced veteran, skilled with skill and steal. I just pointed that in my thoughts, when I hear Commander of Carn Dum as term, I always thoguht about some Dark Numenorean, and they are also skilled with dark magic. So I want to allude on this a bit unusual situation (in my opinion ofc).
Zitat
Although I would like to remind you that the original point of making that Carn Dûm class and stuff according to the team, was to introduce in another way the magic that was lost by removing the wizzard class (by lore and canon reasons, not because they don't like magic).
Ok, I get that, don't worry, but Commanders do nothing with magic. Commanders are describe as warriors without magic perspective in CaH currently (by my thought).
I know that they could be build in dark arts magic arsenal, but I was alluding on current description, which is primary guide and info about CaH class.
And yes, new "order" of CaH removing wizard was to translate all magic (correlated to angmar nature) to Black Numenoreans, so I understand situation completely.
That doesn't mean that Black Numenoreans should have any magic correlated to vanila wizards, take that in mind. I think they have correlated magic to Angmar nature which is dark magic based on weakening of enemies, Morgul Blades, etc.
And if you have some ideas about new abilites in dark magic prospective which could "enrich" current CaH dark magic arsenal, be free to share thougts.  ;)

Regards,
Crag


sr_dark

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Re: Agandaur for Angmar
« Antwort #9 am: 4. Dez 2015, 19:56 »
Sure, I totally agree that the ex vanila wizzard powers shouldnt be moved to CaH men of carn dum ofc as you point out. The thing is that (as a reminder of this trend's topic), Agandaur design should be implemented and as for the new powers, maybe some kind of lighting (not the vainilla one) could be placed really nicely.

Perhaps a shockwave of some kind or as weakening enemies is also feating for dark arts as you point out, maybe the souls leech power (if thats the one that heals the hero) would be more fitting if instead of sacrificing own units to heal, it drains it from enemies and if it was upgradable, it would be even cooler and more fitting.

Cheers

CragLord

  • Gast
Re: Agandaur for Angmar
« Antwort #10 am: 4. Dez 2015, 20:06 »
No lightning I think.
And Agandur's design as proposal here has nothing with lightning, regular one from wizards or some new similar to Minas Morgul one... Simply new model of Agandaur for Dark Numenorean subclass with equipiment stuff.
Dark magic abilities at first place ofc for Dark Numenorean.
Some soul leech could work on enemy units, I haven't checked all of their dark arsenal currently in CaH, something similar exists?

Greetings,
CragLord
« Letzte Änderung: 4. Dez 2015, 21:07 von CragLord »

BalkanLuka

  • Bilbos Festgast
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Re: Agandaur for Angmar
« Antwort #11 am: 4. Dez 2015, 20:19 »
There are many ideas and i like that many have shown an interest to this suggestion, as we can see there are some ideas that interconect, so i what do you think about these options
-There is no need to just a named character like Agandaur, just update the CaH black numenorians with his equipment, helm...
-Maybe merge both Black Numenorian heroes to 1, so that we can get another posible create a hero class as it would free up a slot.
-Add more equipment cuztimization options at least
-I have no idea about magic, other people are beter at giving spell ideas

P.S.  Oko zvucnih fajlova, znam da nisu nekog kvalieta, napravio onako, ako prihvate super, ako ne ,nikom nista, a posto sam u domu ne mogu da skinnem War in the north.
Iskreno voleo bih samo da malo ulepsaju ikonice, dodaju neku bonus opremu, jer nije meni do Agandaura, vise volim da ubace njegov  dizajn,i neke druge iz iste igrice, a WiTN ima opet ima dobre,prikladne dizajne-npr Rudar divljaci, orkovski i patuljacki oklopi...
Ovo sam radio jer volim edain kao mod, i mislim da bi lepsi bio, sve ostalo je dobro razvijeno od samih autora moda.

sr_dark

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Re: Agandaur for Angmar
« Antwort #12 am: 4. Dez 2015, 20:44 »
Agree, agree and we'll see :p

Hope so member of the team is reading this and answers, this is tremendous stuff!

CragLord

  • Gast
Re: Agandaur for Angmar
« Antwort #13 am: 9. Jan 2016, 21:23 »
Little info for you guys (who participated in this disscussion), I have found clean Agandaur's sound packs. Check general sound suggestion topic (Link). ;)

Regards,
CragLord

sr_dark

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Re: Agandaur for Angmar
« Antwort #14 am: 22. Feb 2016, 01:31 »
Very nice to see there's material for this, unfortunately I cant download the files it says its too old or something so it was deleted :/

I hope at least the voice and Agandaur's helmet at least was taking from this topic :p

Cheers

CragLord

  • Gast
Re: Agandaur for Angmar
« Antwort #15 am: 22. Feb 2016, 01:45 »
Sadly that site holds uploaded files for 21 days, after that maintaining cycle erased them.
I found those clean files for both English and German community. :)
I presume they are downloaded by ET in time when I posted that link.
If you are really courious to hear, here, I have reupload just english version  ;) :
http://www.megafileupload.com/ewQR/Agandaur_English.rar

Regards,
CragLord

sr_dark

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Re: Agandaur for Angmar
« Antwort #16 am: 22. Feb 2016, 02:24 »
Omfg its amazing, so clear; waaayy better than the samurai one they have now

I specially loved the ''you should have left middle earth with the rest of your kind'' or ''all you have done is raise my ire. Because of your insolence, my conquer of the north shall be all the more cruel!''

Let's beg Edain heard this ^^

Cheers and thanks for the audios!