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Umfrage

Who do YOU think Tom Bombadil actually is?

Maia
2 (6.9%)
Embodiment of either Arda or the Music of the Ainur
5 (17.2%)
Eru himself
4 (13.8%)
Something else
3 (10.3%)
I don't know, I just want to keep him as a great conspiracy theory :)
9 (31%)
He is
6 (20.7%)

Stimmen insgesamt: 29

Autor Thema: Who is Tom Bombadil?  (Gelesen 5119 mal)

WarOfTheRingVeteran

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Who is Tom Bombadil?
« am: 11. Dez 2015, 22:03 »
One of the biggest list of conspiracy theories in fiction, however, probably not so famous. Afaik, there is the same poll in German forums, which I think I stumbled upon a long time ago all until it kept bugging me more and more that I finally decided to make the poll here, in English forum.

I myself do indeed want to have it kept as a conspiracy theory, but it might change, so that's why I gave you an option to change your opinion cause I'm fully aware how tough this question is to answer, unless you actually have an opinion :)


wasauchimmer

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Re: Who is Tom Bombadil?
« Antwort #1 am: 12. Dez 2015, 02:37 »
I really like the theory, he'd be the Witch King of Angmar!  [uglybunti]
(Because of Barrow-wights, the ring not effecting him, etc.)

If you don't know it, google it. It's very ... interesting  :D

WarOfTheRingVeteran

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Re: Who is Tom Bombadil?
« Antwort #2 am: 12. Dez 2015, 03:41 »
I've heard something about that theory, and it indeed is interesting! Old Bombadillo is one hell of a... well, I'm just gonna just say one big enigma :)

Seriously though, who knows what Tolkien had in his mind.

Adamin

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Re: Who is Tom Bombadil?
« Antwort #3 am: 12. Dez 2015, 13:11 »
You forgot my favourit answer, and the one given in the book. ^^

Zitat von: The Fellowship of the Ring, Book One, Chapter VII: In the House of Tom Bombadil
"Fair lady!" said Frodo again after a while. "Tell me, if my asking does not seem foolish, who is Tom Bombadil?"
"He is," said Goldberry, staying her swift movements and smiling.

Walküre

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Re: Who is Tom Bombadil?
« Antwort #4 am: 12. Dez 2015, 13:18 »
I would really like to write some interesting points of Tom Bombadil and his 'mystery', related to my own 'head canon', like Adamin says  xD
But, having limited time these days, I will be brief.

I think that he might be a Maia, in his full and complete form and power (thus immune to the influence of the One Ring), remained for mysterious reasons in Middle Earth.

I reject the idea of him being Ilúvatar, as I always regard the Supreme God as something different and separated in the Timeless Halls from the physical Universe, although being obviously the original source of everything's existence.
Given also its 'policy' of never intervening directly in the World unless critical reasons like the War moved against Valinor by Númenor.

The_Necromancer0

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Re: Who is Tom Bombadil?
« Antwort #5 am: 12. Dez 2015, 13:53 »
I would really like to write some interesting points of Tom Bombadil and his 'mystery', related to my own 'head canon', like Adamin says  xD
But, having limited time these days, I will be brief.

I think that he might be a Maia, in his full and complete form and power (thus immune to the influence of the One Ring), remained for mysterious reasons in Middle Earth.

I reject the idea of him being Ilúvatar, as I always regard the Supreme God as something different and separated in the Timeless Halls from the physical Universe, although being obviously the original source of everything's existence.
Given also its 'policy' of never intervening directly in the World unless critical reasons like the War moved against Valinor by Númenor.

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WarOfTheRingVeteran

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Re: Who is Tom Bombadil?
« Antwort #6 am: 12. Dez 2015, 14:36 »
You forgot my favourit answer, and the one given in the book. ^^

Zitat von: The Fellowship of the Ring, Book One, Chapter VII: In the House of Tom Bombadil
"Fair lady!" said Frodo again after a while. "Tell me, if my asking does not seem foolish, who is Tom Bombadil?"
"He is," said Goldberry, staying her swift movements and smiling.

I have thought about that answer, but my authentic approach suggests that "He is" actually refers to Eru. This is a fragment from LotR Wiki:

Some suggest there are linguistic clues suggesting that Tom Bombadil is an avatar of the physical universe. When Frodo asks Goldberry who Bombadil is, she first replies, " He is."  When Goldberry tells Frodo "He is," she is using the common tongue. Had, however, she been speaking Elvish, she would have said "Ea"  Note how similar this is to the puzzle (say "friend" and enter) that Gandalf must solve to enter Moria. The answer is literally spelled out but turns on a proper translation.

Another theory in regards to the word "Ea" is that Tom Bombadil is related to the "Secret Fire" referenced in the Silmarillion. In the Silmarillion, it states, "Therefore Ilúvatar gave to their vision Being, and set it amid the Void, and the Secret Fire was sent to burn at the heart of the World; and it was called Ea." If Tom Bombadil is indeed "Ea", then that might just put him in a different light seeing him as the heart of the World where the Secret Fire exists, which is the very essence of what created Arda. Tom Bombadil therefore is not affected by the Ring because he does not care for such things. He is, or contains within himself, the substance of creation. Also, it states that Melkor sought out the Secret Fire, but could not find it because it was with Eru only. This also suggests that Tom Bombadil is directly tied to Eru if he is indeed "Ea".

So that's why those two answers are "tied together", but if you think it's better, okay, I'm fine with it :)

Adamin

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Re: Who is Tom Bombadil?
« Antwort #7 am: 12. Dez 2015, 15:20 »
Whaaaat? This Reasoning makes no sense imho.  [ugly]

The linguistic approach is a nice idea, but there is no real clue for that. Usually when Tolkien uses a word in a special context it is capitalized. That way the west (direction) is different from The West (Valinor).
Also as Walk stated Eru does not intervene directly with Arda.
Also is Ea really a nickname for Eru? As the second paragraph states Ea is the name of the existing physical world, because it literally "is".

The Secret Fire reason does not offer any explanation. It doesn't show any connection between Tom and Eru, only states that he contains the Secret Fire. Well yeah, every living being in Arda contains the Secret Fire.

Walküre

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Re: Who is Tom Bombadil?
« Antwort #8 am: 12. Dez 2015, 19:20 »

Yes, I agree  :)

Arda, and, more extensively, the physical Universe are something completely separated from Ilúvatar itself, and Tolkien states this clearly by saying that Eru LOVES the Universe and its LOVE makes possible the very Universe's existence as well, rejecting though a sort of 'animistic' vision that determines God as present in every being and substance in the World and the World itself.

Ilúvatar, as the only almighty and omniscient God, has always existed in the past, it always does it in the Present, and forever will be in the Future; the source of everything's existence.
Eru created Eä (the physical Universe) like a 'box' characterised by our common conceptions of Reality, Time, Space and Matter, to make its plan have a concrete and direct realisation in the 'material dimension', determining the 'fundamental rules and boundaries' of the beginning of History.

But, when most of the Ainur entered Eä moved by the Love for it, they discovered that the 'box' was dark and not realised at all, despite what they had been previously shown by Eru in the great Music.
Thus, it was the Valar's duty (with the help of the Maiar) to fill this empty 'box' with their creations and powers.
And this is a very fundamental aspect, because it clearly explains why the World created by the Archangels (neither almighty nor omniscient) was never perfect and often subjected to the marring caused by the Evil, and, indirectly, by the very Valar's mistakes.


Eru, apart from very few special exceptions, will remain detached in its Timeless Halls until the End of Time and the final 'Judgement'.
That's why I don't consider at all Tom Bombadil being neither the incarnation of God nor God itself.

And, I also disagree with Ilúvatar and Eä being the same thing; it's wrong, I guess.
I don't remember precisely the quotation, but Tolkien states it clearly: they are two separate 'things'.

WarOfTheRingVeteran

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Re: Who is Tom Bombadil?
« Antwort #9 am: 12. Dez 2015, 21:08 »
Ugh... I don't think I'm never again going to start any discussion on MU unless it's a suggestion.

I myself never thought Tolkien ever imagined Tom as Eru; I always hated that idea. I literally just copy-pasted that fragment from the Wiki. And Adamin is right about that having no sense at all. And I also disagree with  Eru and Eä being the same thing, Varda is right :)

« Letzte Änderung: 12. Dez 2015, 21:19 von Varda »

Adamin

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Re: Who is Tom Bombadil?
« Antwort #10 am: 12. Dez 2015, 21:18 »
No wait, don't leave! We're friendly nerds.

Walk, stop intimidating people with your long posts! [ugly]

Walküre

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Re: Who is Tom Bombadil?
« Antwort #11 am: 12. Dez 2015, 21:26 »
No wait, don't leave! We're friendly nerds.

Walk, stop intimidating people with your long posts! [ugly]


No, it wasn't really my intention  :D
You preceded me, I was writing a response for Veteran (can I just name you like this?)  :)

Veteran, do not fear at all DISCUSSION, it is the greatest and most fundamental aspect of the whole forum.
I always make clear in my posts that what I express is only an opinion of mine.
And, I never referred to you personally, as I was critiquing that idea itself.

Sorry, if I seemed so 'passionate', or if you felt unpleasant or 'attacked' in any way.
My intention was the opposite thing; I just wanted to make some points clear about Eru, the Valar and Eä.

P.S. Veteran, you can just call me 'DieWalküre'.
'Varda' is my Christmas username  ;)
« Letzte Änderung: 12. Dez 2015, 21:47 von Varda »

WarOfTheRingVeteran

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Re: Who is Tom Bombadil?
« Antwort #12 am: 12. Dez 2015, 22:31 »
Hey, I'm not leaving! I'm the one who should be apologizing now. I don't feel "attacked" or anything. And Walk (I know it was you), keep being the way you are, "passionate" (as ya say); I really don't feel any different :)   

Except that now I feel kinda guilty XD No, I really don't need your (pl.) apology, It's really now your (pl.) fault :)

And I AM sorry if I have led you into a wrong thought :)

P.S. I hate that English doesn't have a plural for "you", it's so stupid.


Adamin

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Re: Who is Tom Bombadil?
« Antwort #13 am: 13. Dez 2015, 00:08 »
The poll is very fitting in any case. The identity of Tom Bombadil is one of the most notorious LotR related questions after all.