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Autor Thema: Legolas and Haldir  (Gelesen 13134 mal)

Sawman

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Legolas and Haldir
« am: 17. Dez 2015, 17:02 »
Do some of you find Haldir's abilities a little weak? His golden arrow is solid and his last ability is okay I suppose not great though and his first ability after the switch bow/sword can't remember the name is kinda useless IMO I never use it any ways so I suggest that it is removed and replaced by another ability

It could be called "We Will Honour That Alligence"
Haldir picks 3 Galadrim to become a part of his regiment (at level 10) these Galadrim would act like the old ones from 3.8 that Rohan could recruit from the inn and have more hp/armour and a higher attack speed than normal Galadrim and could just buy the upgrades for them because Haldir would be already level 10

I think Haldir needs this ability because he costs 1300 I believe and over factions 1000 hero's have better abilities than him take for example Bergrond of Gondor at level 10 he can summon a heroic unit the white company  and Haldir can summon March wardens that can move a short distance and aren't that good.

Onto Legolas. So I have read the balance discussion and have seen that some people wanted a change to his train archer ability and some who want it to stay. Me personally I'd like to see a change so my suggestion is well this

It could be called "Aim At The Neck"
For a short time all loth archer around Legolas ignore their enemies armour
I think this would contribute to his mass slayer role and add something from the two towers film at the same time.
« Letzte Änderung: 16. Apr 2016, 23:31 von DieWalküre »

Spacetyrant93

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Re: Legolas and Haldir
« Antwort #1 am: 17. Dez 2015, 17:28 »
I'll start with saying that I don't really use Haldir that often, so what I say counts only so much, but I'll say that if I don't use him, there's a reason. I do find him a little weak, even if I can't properly judge since I don't really use him.

Yet I do like this ability, brings in some Two Towers feeling, even if there is no Allegiance to which he might refer here, since there be no humans in the faction :P

On Legolas, the ability you suggest sounds good, I don't see Legolas as the teachin/training type, he's a prince, he commands, and the renewed Two Towers feeling is more than welcome again, as this is where we see Lothlorien's soldiers.

Very good idea overall.

Hamanathnath

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Re: Legolas and Haldir
« Antwort #2 am: 17. Dez 2015, 17:50 »
I like your idea for Legolas. It would make sense because Legolas is very skilled at Archery, meaning that his advice would be useful to archers around.  I think it should also make Archers gain more experience than usual on kills, making somewhat of a  compromise for the people who like Train Archers.

On the other hand, I don't agree on Haldir's ability.  It sounds really similar to Rohan's Spellbook power, and I don't think having 2 summons is a good idea.  Concerning his ability that makes a unit invisible for a short time, I don't have much experience with the ability, I'd have to try it out more before I can say I want a change to it.

I like the Border Guards summon.  While they are not that strong and can't be moved at will, they r always invisible, immune to trample, and there is no limit to how many you can have.  If you lucky with Mirror of Galadriel and get Gold (and are not spamming Golden Arrow), the summon spell comes back really fast.  They might need a small stat boost though, because they might be a little weak considering that Haldir needs to be lvl 8 to get the ability.

The_Necromancer0

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Re: Legolas and Haldir
« Antwort #3 am: 17. Dez 2015, 19:25 »
I agree with Legolas but not Haldir's. Haldir isn't a mighty commander merely a marchwarden who couldn't hold his ground to a couple of Uruk-hais  :P. He is good enough like that. As for Legolas I agree with the idea, not once, neither in the book nor in the movies was he seen as a teacher but he definitely has that King aura, defeating a Mumakil and slaying numerous orcs.
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-DJANGO-

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Re: Legolas and Haldir
« Antwort #4 am: 17. Dez 2015, 20:22 »
Haldir: I would just increase the area of invisibility, so that the units around Haldir (most often Bowman) get the effect too. After all Haldir has this passive invisibility for himself...

Legolas: I find his ability good as it is now. So no need for change...
- THE EAGLES ARE COMING -

Sawman

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Re: Legolas and Haldir
« Antwort #5 am: 17. Dez 2015, 21:24 »
So kinda had a new idea for Haldir if he got a new ability this would add a second kind of heroic unit for loth because if he got the ability I posted earlier you would have a lot more than 3 special Galadrim with clumping and what not so I say maybe once he's level 10 or whatever he can select the fortress to make his special Galadrim and only be able to make 3 battalions
just a little of a improvement from before :D

Melkor Bauglir

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Re: Legolas and Haldir
« Antwort #6 am: 17. Dez 2015, 21:34 »
Absolutely against this!
Lothlorien is already ridicously overcrowded with archers, it's actually no fun anymore. Adding another archer unit, would leave this faction with a total of 6 different archer units, not considering the spell-book, which is just silly.

Furthermore, I agree with DJANGO: Invisibilty is such a unique concept with such a wide range of counterplay and it is sadly really lackluster to the point where it appears totally random. Defensive abilities that involve stealthing your troops are always welcome and Haldir's "Move unseen" or whatever it's called needs to be improved.
Apart from that, Haldir seems pretty nice for me: He has a leadership and a stun, can attack from afar and has a decent eventhough not stunning level 8 ability. In my opinion he should be fine. ;)


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Odysseus

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Re: Legolas and Haldir
« Antwort #7 am: 17. Dez 2015, 21:47 »
I share the same opinion as Melkor Bauglir and DJANGO.
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Elite KryPtik

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Re: Legolas and Haldir
« Antwort #8 am: 21. Dez 2015, 14:57 »
I don't agree or disagree with the ability ideas presented. However, I do think that both Move Unseen and Train Archers need to be either improved with additional/stronger effects, or replaced with different abilities.
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Sir_Stig

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Re: Legolas and Haldir
« Antwort #9 am: 12. Jan 2016, 21:41 »
I'm with elite here, there definitely needs to be something changing with those abilities, as they feel very lackluster.
I like the Legolas ability change, but agree with Django that Haldir's ability should just receive a buff, as it is a good concept, it just falls a bit short in practice.
I wouldn't mind seeing the border-guards stay as a bodyguard of sorts that follows Haldir, but it's not really something that I see as being needing a change.

Lord of Mordor

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Re: Legolas and Haldir
« Antwort #10 am: 13. Jan 2016, 08:32 »
How would you buff Haldir's Move Unseen? It's an ability we'd certainly like to keep, as it's very unique and fits the faction well.
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Re: Legolas and Haldir
« Antwort #11 am: 13. Jan 2016, 10:54 »
Sry for the repetition.
Haldir: I would just increase the area of invisibility, so that the units around Haldir (most often Bowman) get the effect too.
At the moment not even a hole Battalion is affected.
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ringbearer

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Re: Legolas and Haldir
« Antwort #12 am: 13. Jan 2016, 11:02 »
I agree with Django :) .. But guys, can you tell me what haldirs second ability really does? or how to use it "visely" ? i can't say that i have ever felt the need to use it, nor i have ever seen anyone in online matches using it.

Elite KryPtik

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Re: Legolas and Haldir
« Antwort #13 am: 13. Jan 2016, 20:29 »
Increase the area of invisibility, and perhaps a movement speed buff as well.
Arise! Arise, Riders of Theoden! Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter! Spear shall be shaken! Shield shall be splintered! A sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now! Ride now! Ride, ride to ruin, and the worlds ending! FORTH EORLINGAS!

Sawman

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Re: Legolas and Haldir
« Antwort #14 am: 5. Feb 2016, 05:46 »
I see no one likes the Haldir change so maybe a buff is in order, but apart from buffing his second ability with what people are saying maybe also buff Haldir's gifts by giving the units he summons forged blades along with his upgraded golden arrow? That might make them a little better because once their element of surprise is over they are easy to take out and maybe increase the number he spawns. I think he only spawns 8 at the moment maybe change that to 14-16 with gifts from the lady of the wood

Hal9000

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Re: Legolas and Haldir
« Antwort #15 am: 27. Feb 2016, 16:11 »
Hi, I have a suggestion about Haldir, I think he could have a different final capacity when using his bow. Remember in 3.8.1, the Haldir invoked by the Rohan spellbook had a unique ability that would suit perfectly for the Lothlorien. Here is a picture of this power:
http://postimg.org/image/yjqkb5jnj/
Archers are the highlight of this faction and I think that this ability would be perfect for Haldir, it will show how powerful are the lothlorien's archers when using their bows.
This capacity could be also used as a new ability for the caras galadhon archers.

Odysseus

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Re: Legolas and Haldir
« Antwort #16 am: 27. Feb 2016, 20:29 »
This is quite an interesting ability. It might be really powerful when Galadhrim have upgraded to Silverthorn though.
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Hamanathnath

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Re: Legolas and Haldir
« Antwort #17 am: 29. Feb 2016, 14:01 »
I think that ability would work great for Haldir in Rohan's summon, because that power is currently a little weak.  However, if that is added, there really isn't a reason not to use it, so I would suggest not allowing Haldir or the Galadhrim to switch to their swords while the ability is active, making it somewhat of a risk. 

And maybe this would also be a cool ability for the Caras Galadhon Guardians, who in my opinion need an ability like that.  However, that the Caras Galadhon Guardians need to get another ability, because if I remember correctly, they start with the other 2 abilities they have.  I don't think that Lothlorien's Haldir should get this ability though. 

On a seprate note, I do have a suggestion for changing one of Haldir's abilities a little.  I do like Haldir's last ability where he summons the Marchwardens (I think that's what they are called.  Correct me if I'm wrong).  But I think it could be slightly changed to where if Haldir is using his bow, the Marchwardens he summons will also be using bows instead of swords.  And it would stay as it is now if Haldir is using his sword. 

I think it would make more sense because I would believe the Marchwardens, just like Haldir, would be trained to use both the Bow and the Sword.  And depending on what weapon Haldir is using, he can choose what the Marchwardens specialize in.  We also see them with their bows in the movies when they ambush the Fellowship, so I would assume it is lore accurate, though I don't know too much lore past the Movies so I might be wrong on that.

Rivi

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Re: Legolas and Haldir
« Antwort #18 am: 1. Apr 2016, 00:20 »
Although I realize this is somewhat of an old post, I would certainly agree that Haldir's 'move unseen' should be either replaced or buffed. I wouldn't agree that it is a particularly unique ability either, it serves (basically) the same purpose as the enshrouding mist spell, both of which are extremely inconsistent and as a result very rarely used.

lordglorfindel

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Re: Legolas and Haldir
« Antwort #19 am: 14. Apr 2016, 23:16 »
I totally agree that some  changes on legolas and haldir.For Haldir:Making archers faster or buffing invisibility.For lego:Its excellent idea that named "Aim At The Neck".Its really unnecessary train archers.Like Hamanathnath said Archers near Legolas taking experience more fast by this ability.Then, like other hero units have Caras Galadhon deserve second skill.

AragornSonoftheB

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Re: Legolas and Haldir
« Antwort #20 am: 16. Apr 2016, 18:39 »
I would like to show my disappointment about Legolas being the weak link in the Lothlorien faction.  It's like that, even two battalions of orcs can kill him.  Sometimes when i control him, it feels like controlling Snowhite.  I was wondering if he could get a general improvement on his armor and the range damage.
Thanks for reading :D

Gandalf7000

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Re: Legolas and Haldir
« Antwort #21 am: 16. Apr 2016, 19:14 »
Well if 2 battalions of orcs can kill him it's normal. Heroes in this mod have to be protected by units. If you go solo with, perhaps, Sauron he will be killed with 2 or maybe 3 battalions of any units! ;) This all is for balance reasons - heroes shouldn't be so strong to destroy entire armies.

kreso

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Re: Legolas and Haldir
« Antwort #22 am: 16. Apr 2016, 20:02 »
Use ur 1. ability and u could kill 10 battalion orcs with Legolas. Try it :D
Only his Hawk Shot is weak, useless but i am sure Edain will fix it. :)
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Walküre

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Re: Legolas and Haldir
« Antwort #23 am: 16. Apr 2016, 23:44 »
I would like to show my disappointment about Legolas being the weak link in the Lothlorien faction.  It's like that, even two battalions of orcs can kill him.  Sometimes when i control him, it feels like controlling Snowhite.  I was wondering if he could get a general improvement on his armor and the range damage.
Thanks for reading :D

I think you can continue the debate in another thread of this section that deals more widely with Legolas and Haldir. As for the topic, I agree with the replies you got: you can not see Legolas as the one-army hero and war machine he was in BFME1. Furthermore, most of his abilities are quite iconic, similarly to Gandalf's powers; I don't think they will ever be radically changed.

MERGED

lordglorfindel

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Re: Legolas and Haldir
« Antwort #24 am: 18. Apr 2016, 16:43 »
Zitat
I think you can continue the debate in another thread of this section that deals more widely with Legolas and Haldir. As for the topic, I agree with the replies you got: you can not see Legolas as the one-army hero and war machine he was in BFME1. Furthermore, most of his abilities are quite iconic, similarly to Gandalf's powers; I don't think they will ever be radically changed.

MERGED

Yeah you're right.None of heroes should be one army.But there should be somethings that make legolas special and different.Like aragorn said he feels me playing with snowhite.He is the one of the most talented hunters of middle earth and leader of mirkwood archers.I hope you ll take care of him :)
« Letzte Änderung: 18. Apr 2016, 21:21 von DieWalküre »

Walküre

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Re: Legolas and Haldir
« Antwort #25 am: 18. Apr 2016, 22:37 »
Every hero has its own prerogatives and traits. The heroes' role mix with and is deeply connected to their very abilities. This means that there are many variables in the whole ensemble of each hero that have to be taken into consideration carefully. Statements like 'This is too weak' or 'That seems to be useless' leave me, honestly, a bit sceptical, because they are generally based on personal, very personal, views.

When I wrote that Legolas is not anymore what he was in BFME1, it's because I too loved, back in the old days of the first game, to use Legolas pretty much for every task; I remember he would be able to take down anything alone, structures included  xD
Everything is naturally different in our beloved Edain Mod 4.0, where heroes are supposed to act in coordination with units and to fulfill their role (as written above, a role defined by the heroes' inner nature and by the lore).

By the way, don't forget that Legolas, if he really needs to be enhanced, can receive the Bow of the Galadhrim as a gift, from the Lady of Light  ;)

lordglorfindel

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Re: Legolas and Haldir
« Antwort #26 am: 19. Apr 2016, 09:03 »
Every hero has its own prerogatives and traits. The heroes' role mix with and is deeply connected to their very abilities. This means that there are many variables in the whole ensemble of each hero that have to be taken into consideration carefully. Statements like 'This is too weak' or 'That seems to be useless' leave me, honestly, a bit sceptical, because they are generally based on personal, very personal, views.

When I wrote that Legolas is not anymore what he was in BFME1, it's because I too loved, back in the old days of the first game, to use Legolas pretty much for every task; I remember he would be able to take down anything alone, structures included  xD
Everything is naturally different in our beloved Edain Mod 4.0, where heroes are supposed to act in coordination with units and to fulfill their role (as written above, a role defined by the heroes' inner nature and by the lore).

By the way, don't forget that Legolas, if he really needs to be enhanced, can receive the Bow of the Galadhrim as a gift, from the Lady of Light  ;)

Haha once thranduil wasn't just hero killer,He was fort demolisher too like legolas  :D My love causing from this i think  :)When i was reading your last sentence i got hope that legolas still can be changed.Until i sae the Gift of Lady  xD.And im not professional modder and there is a lot of like me.Only thing that i can do is eveluate from my perspective.I say about Legolas,other say about Saruman.If we combine all ideas, it won't be personally.I hope you don't misunderstand me.With love
« Letzte Änderung: 19. Apr 2016, 18:53 von lordglorfindel »

Walküre

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Re: Legolas and Haldir
« Antwort #27 am: 20. Apr 2016, 01:26 »
You are more than free to express your own opinions, and the main aim of this forum is exactly supposed to be this  :)

Just, as a small advice, you should always make sure that your considerations are at least backed by consistent and reasonable motivations, other than our own personal feelings. This often means looking at the portrait's all aspects, and not solely focusing on what seems, at a first glance, a problematic matter. One good example could be what we have discussed so far: how the role of the heroes changed in the Edain Mod according to their role in their respective factions. But, we can also talk about other features of the game that allow us to use them in a more useful way (for example, the Gifts of Lórien and other mechanics).

Saruman and Legolas were really formidable in BFME1; you could just throw them against masses of enemies and let them do their job. However, as I wrote above, the whole 'music' changed in the Edain Mod, and you shouldn't judge things with the old standards; moreover, you shouldn't also just see how many people have said this or that thing to evaluate your own arguments (actually, this often devalues them).

The Edain Mod 4.0 is such a colourful and variegated painting, yet more difficult and deeper to understand completely. It's thus essential widening our sight as much as we can  ;)