A possible new Evil Men faction

[tolgayurdal]

Greetings everyone!

I re-shaped and edit my former evil men faction concept. Almost everything has been touched in the light of spellbook and siege updates. If you have time and any idea, please check it out and response your feedback.

Best regards.

[dgsgomes]

tolgayurdal, I have red most of your suggestion; overall, it looks great and very well detailed, but there are a few things that I think that deserves to be discussed:

1- The Harad outpost idea did not seem so great for me; as a more nomad faction without a lot of technology, I think that a compact building which gatters everything together does not fit. Actually, the standard outpost with 3 building plots would probably feel more fitting, or perphaps if most Harad buildings were built on settlements while the other factions were restricted to Castle/Camps or Outposts, I don't know. Anyway, a compact building with many expansions may not look very good.

2- I feel like the amount of different units in the factions make many of them feel unnecessary in terms of gameplay. For example, with Rhun riders and wainriders, why would haradrim riders be needed? With so many chieftains and with Dragon Warriors, why would Black Easterlings be recruited? Actually, removing this 2 unit types would also be great as this would make the correspondent Mordor units even more unique

Summing up, it seems to me that you attempted very hard to reach each factions' full potential (which is great), but perphaps you have gone a little too far. I think that for such a huge proposal work, some things and features, such as the units I've said above, will need to be entirely cut off in order to make everything feel unique and useful. So, are these amount of different units ALL necessary? Do Rhun NEED an Outpost building? Does Umbar need a Settlement building AND an Outpost? Shriking your suggestion is important to make things more practical, including making it easier to people read it, as it is very big (even though it is very well planned).

Anyway, I'm for your suggestion, as there are many cool elements on it which I'd like to see discussed here and possibly be implemented, but I think it can be polished even more. Best regards!

[tolgayurdal]

@dgsgomes,

Thanks for the feedback. I know that there are some parts to be discussed. I am open to anything contributing.

1- About the outposts, i agree Harad to be nomad faction, the problem is implementation of Mumakil Tent. It should not be a hero skill, it needs to be part of their camp. The other buildings can be merged but Slave Farm and Bazaar have different functions up to their culture. The settlement has Khand Encampment already for gathering Southrons. I am not totally against it, but i need to see the alternative design. If it fits, i can gladly change it.

2- I am aware that the unit roster is crowded especially cavalries. It is associated with Rhun Outpost, Rhun should not have regular outpost and Fortress seemed proper which can not train Wainriders. In that case without Wainriders, Rhun doesn't have cavalry but it can be cut because of the faction doesn't need it. Maybe only Rhun King summons them in the last skill. Before Southrons, Easterlings don't have any siege, Black Easterlings suppose to be ram instead. If the player doesn't have an outpost, can not siege enemy castles or outposts.

Haradrim Riders can be cut as long as Khand has cavalry for Southrons. Dragon Guards and Serpent Guards are only heroic units of Rhun and Harad. They are part of ring mechanics but not essential. Removing them provides a room for only heroic units to be Black Numenoreans.

Rhun Outpost? I don't know maybe it is not necessary. It is very soon to bring it up but when the War of the Ring mode is on, every faction might start with outposts. I will remove it when clarified. Umbar Outpost has already a function such as Templar Knight and Black Numenoreans. But Tavern is just useful nothing more, main base can have another settlement. It should not be Harad because of geography. The buildings follow East, Khand territory, Harad Lands and Umbar City. So the alternative is welcomed.

Finally thank you for kind words and feedback again which helps to re-shape the consept. If there are any other suggestions, they can be put on the table. I will add you to the In Favour list after i edit the concept.

Best regards.

[Shadowlord]

As someone who has been an advocate for a Men of Darkness faction for years. I am glad that someone has made a truly concise, consistent, and overall very well presented concept for the faction. That is well thought out in every sense of the word. If I may ask though, do you have any artwork or a visual reference in mind for your Shadow Priest unit. I am very interested to see your idea on what his design would be.

Overall I am strongly, In Favour of this faction being added to the mod. A truly united Men of Darkness faction, as compared to a Rhun or Harad faction. And I hope the Edain team decides to add a Men of Darkness faction similar to your pitch into the game, after completing the Misty Mountains faction.

[tolgayurdal]

Thank you for feedback. Since Shadow Priest is improved version of Priest hero through ultimate defensive spell, he may only receive another robe in black. As long as his role endured, the visuals can be changed, i think. So the artwork is totally up to ET, whatever they like is on.

Also as mentioned, the consept isn't expected before Misty Mountains but i add your name to in favour list.

[Loyal Guard T]

Good Days, Evil Men fans

As known, Men of Darkness faction consept is below with changes every time:


https://drive.google.com/open?id=1G8tklJuAY_GjxH6iAqx9Ui7Uh67ZIK1V


Side by Side, Unto Death.

In Favours

dgsgomes
Shadowlord
dkbluewizard (moddb )

[dkbluewizard2]

I can honestly say I am for this faction. I love everything about it. There is nothing that I feel that I could say to improve what is done on this faction. The canon and well thought out ideas are excellent and Tolkien worthy.

With that said, I only have minor tweeks or suggestions:

Do we have to have Rhun be the main fortress? The Men of Darkness were always invading, couldn't they have more tent like structures and taverns to show they are marching far to war? Rhun, Harad, Umbar, Khand, and Mahuds (jungle) could all have their own cultural look/feel to each of the tents. But overall I picture the "castle" structures to look like a giant version of Rohan's outpost--just with differing looks and color schemes.

This is only a minor suggestion. Otherwise I believe everything to look perfect. If my suggestion is negated, then I am fine with it. The concept overall looks perfect!

[tolgayurdal]

You are right, the castle just does not fit into evil men faction characteristic. Maybe invasion camp would be more suitable, i am not against every argument, only expect another idea to solve the problem. Thanks for helpfull suggestions.

[dkbluewizard2]

tolgayurdal, well I am glad that I could help. I was thinking the tent structures would solve the main base issue as they all came together with the goal of destroying the west.

This way you could start with any culture you wanted. But maybe when the Black Numenorian comes and shares the architecture of Numenor with the Low Men, then maybe their giant "tent camp" can change into a fortress like structure.

I don't know how that would work though or how that could be implemented as far as the game goes. But having the Black Numenorian sent by Sauron would improve the defenses of the Men of Darkness.

This is just a suggestion, if you could reply to this and tell me what you think--that would be sublime.

[tolgayurdal]

dkbluewizard, your suggestion is really tempting, the tent camp as an outpost can be improved with upgrades through Black Numenorean who is an engineering emissery at the end.

The other outposts and subfactions may be reshaped, Khand has a suitable place on settlements. I think, Harad would not be the same, i can not imagine the recruitment of mumakils and Haradrim troops without Harad outpost. The implementation of Umbar is now questionable, three outposts would be too much unless Mordor and settlement is just not fitting. How about central spell enables Templar Knight and corsairs through one of his skill? I am not sure the dynamic of these, if you have any idea, please share it.

Thanks for contributions

Sincerely.

[dkbluewizard2]

I am okay with Harad still being an outpost--or we could switch the Tavern to being the outpost for the corsairs and other Umbarian characters. I don't know though. I feel your method is perfect for the faction but merely needs a few tweaks.

I really don't know which outposts would be good--I think these can just be based off of personal preference. Whatever factions aren't included in the castle structure, should be utilized on settlements and outposts.

[tolgayurdal]

I could not focussed properly yet, but have an idea. Harad would be an independent outpost for sure, but the second one is an invasion camp which can be upgraded to Easterling or Corsairs, similar to Angmar's. If Easterlings are selected, infantry focussed troops will be recruitable. If Corsairs are choosen, Umbarian units which are siege effective with ballista and corsairs would be accessable.

After the central spell, Black Numenorean will upgrade Corsair invasion camp to Black Numenorean Fortress at level 5 and ultimate defensive spell enables it to recruit Templar Guards.

Please share your ideas dkbluewizard, i believe that with your help, it will become perfect as Edain usual.

This is only an alternative, not my best work (because of real life pushes me harder than used to be). I hope the consept is finalised as soon as possible, othervise have to wait a couple months.

[dkbluewizard2]

Tolgayurdal, that idea sounds perfect! I think that would work.  I like that idea the best and feel that those changes should be made. That was the only thing. Otherwise I think your concept is perfect--that is to say it needs nothing else. It is awesome and I think you should present it to the Edain Team after you make these changes.

[tolgayurdal]

Thanks dkbluewizard, sorry for delayed answer by the way (i am struggling many things at the same time, work and others). Eventhough i am willing to finalize the consept, if you help me with your feedbacks, i believe that would not take much longer.

Please share your ideas and suggestions, the second view probably determinates the problems and provides solutions.

Best regards.

[dkbluewizard2]

I am sorry you are struggling. Stay safe and healthy my friend.