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Umfrage

Evil Men Faction

Yes an Evil Men faction would be great with all of the realms combined.
94 (67.6%)
I like the evil men the way they are now.
7 (5%)
I think they should not have a faction but i would like more units from the spellbook.
3 (2.2%)
Harad And Rhun should be two separate factions.
35 (25.2%)

Stimmen insgesamt: 130

Autor Thema: A possible new Evil Men faction  (Gelesen 51382 mal)

Lord Aytugar

  • Gast
Re: A possible new Evil Men faction
« Antwort #75 am: 14. Jan 2017, 16:18 »
Firstly a friend of mine from local forum site told me that FG15 denied repeatedly new factions after MM on moddb. Also he said implementation of these faction to BFME 1 system takes so many times and team will not do that and graduate. And after that i checked dorwinion consept link and it is broken. So i thought maybe i did not noticed this decision.

I have definetly never said anything of that kind. I don't know what your fried misunderstood.

There won't be any new factions before the Misty Mountains are released. Misty Mountains is the most complex faction because it doesn't completly use the BfME 1 building system. Also many other systems changed during the development of Edain 4.x, so Misty Mountains have to be adapted to these changes.

After all the factions are released, there are two more factions plannend, so concepts for new factions aren't needed. But these factions shouldn't be expected too soon.

Thank you for clearing that up. That man must totaly be misunderstand. I let him know the truth.

We can guess that new factions will not come soon from MM releasing time. So we are looking forward to see completed Edain Mod.

Shadowxgate

  • Bilbos Festgast
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Re: A possible new Evil Men faction
« Antwort #76 am: 22. Jan 2017, 11:14 »
i just got an idea for evil men, im not sure how doable it is but just a fun concept to work with.
in lord of the rings haradrim carried their houses/palaces on the back of mumaks, so what if they had mumaks instead of building slots. sort of you build a mumak pen (lets say they could be the mirkwood of evil men) and from there you build mumaks and from the mumaks you build haradrim. its also fun because you can be in on the action and still get reinforcements

lordoflinks

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Re: A possible new Evil Men faction
« Antwort #77 am: 22. Jan 2017, 11:46 »
@shadowxgate Fun idea, but I think that would lead to a LOT of bugs, and the AI may find it a bit hard

I am pleased to announce the concept here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1P6gcEVaor8HkBdzO3EOeDpMsIxbLHbjLiPUB0YBz6A4/edit
is finished, gameplay wise.
A few things to note:
1. The Emperor is set up as a parallel to Aragon, but unlike argaon who had his kingship assured for him, Ulfang had to claw it bit by bit, and this is reflected in how Rhun moves from a collection of tribes, to a confederacy and finally to a Empire 
2. Ulfang's ring ability, mounting dragon, may seem ridiculous but if echos Rhun's obsession with dragons (Look at their amour) and fills a gap in Rhuns roster, as they lack effective siege
All your words are but to say: you are a woman, and your part is in the house. But when the men have died in battle and honour, you have leave to be burned in the house, for the men will need it no more. But I am of the House of Eorl and not a serving-woman. I can ride and wield blade, and I do not fear either pain or death.

But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Éomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.


My avatar is Romana, a favorite person of mine

OakenShield224

  • Elbischer Pilger
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  • Welcome, my sister-sons, to the Kingdom of Erebor!
Re: A possible new Evil Men faction
« Antwort #78 am: 22. Jan 2017, 12:41 »
I like most of the ideas that are there now. The whole concept seems really well thought out. A couple of thoughts:

There seems to be a lot more heroes than in other factions with over 3 heroes for each region. The heroes overlap with each other in their roles. Could the amount of heroes be reduced and have their roles be more concentrated?

One thing that the evil men were known for in the War of the Ring was continuing to fight to the end, even when the other armies of Mordor had fled or been destroyed. Could this be added in some way in the spellbook? Maybe, instead of the firestorm, the tier 4 power could make all units in a selected area invincible and immune to knockback. Another idea could be that Suladan or Ulfang could make all surrounding units immune to knockback as a passive.

lordoflinks

  • Pförtner von Bree
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Re: A possible new Evil Men faction
« Antwort #79 am: 22. Jan 2017, 22:40 »
I like most of the ideas that are there now. The whole concept seems really well thought out. A couple of thoughts:

There seems to be a lot more heroes than in other factions with over 3 heroes for each region. The heroes overlap with each other in their roles. Could the amount of heroes be reduced and have their roles be more concentrated?

One thing that the evil men were known for in the War of the Ring was continuing to fight to the end, even when the other armies of Mordor had fled or been destroyed. Could this be added in some way in the spellbook? Maybe, instead of the firestorm, the tier 4 power could make all units in a selected area invincible and immune to knockback. Another idea could be that Suladan or Ulfang could make all surrounding units immune to knockback as a passive.
If you have any suggestions regarding heroes, feel free to speak your mind and add a note to the document. I do not know the best to reduce heroes roles effectively so suggestions here would help. 
All your words are but to say: you are a woman, and your part is in the house. But when the men have died in battle and honour, you have leave to be burned in the house, for the men will need it no more. But I am of the House of Eorl and not a serving-woman. I can ride and wield blade, and I do not fear either pain or death.

But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Éomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.


My avatar is Romana, a favorite person of mine

OakenShield224

  • Elbischer Pilger
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  • Beiträge: 173
  • Welcome, my sister-sons, to the Kingdom of Erebor!
Re: A possible new Evil Men faction
« Antwort #80 am: 23. Jan 2017, 21:38 »
Will there be an actual restriction on subfactions (for example, if you choose Harad, you can't do anything Umbar or Khand related) or is it just limited by the amount of outposts on the map? Also, I'm assuming that the Harad, Umbar and Khand heroes can only be bought from their outposts. If this is the case, then forget what I said about having too many heroes as you'd probably only be able to get about half the total amount of heroes in one game and this would help influence which sub faction you choose.
« Letzte Änderung: 23. Jan 2017, 21:45 von OakenShield224 »

lordoflinks

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Re: A possible new Evil Men faction
« Antwort #81 am: 25. Jan 2017, 07:14 »
You pick a fraction to ally with at the beginning. You can only build that outpost, but regardless everyone gets all settlements regardless to show how even if you don't ally with Khand or Umbar they still send support.   
Suladan aura now prevents knockback.
« Letzte Änderung: 25. Jan 2017, 07:23 von lordoflinks »
All your words are but to say: you are a woman, and your part is in the house. But when the men have died in battle and honour, you have leave to be burned in the house, for the men will need it no more. But I am of the House of Eorl and not a serving-woman. I can ride and wield blade, and I do not fear either pain or death.

But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Éomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.


My avatar is Romana, a favorite person of mine

FilipGeorg95

  • Thain des Auenlandes
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  • Beiträge: 43
Re: A possible new Evil Men faction
« Antwort #82 am: 4. Feb 2017, 16:51 »
Guys, I have done a research and stated my thoughts about the possibility of this faction to emerge on day :) Hope that you will find interesting things in the proposal and I will gladly like to discuss more and hear your statements, critics and unique ideas :D
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4gnsKlciNEDTG56a2tmTTZyeE0/view?usp=drive_web

lordoflinks

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Re: A possible new Evil Men faction
« Antwort #83 am: 4. Feb 2017, 23:10 »
My major concern about your idea FilipGeorg95 is that it seems a bit mashed together, what I mean by that is that if my interpretation is correct you are saying you recruit Khand, Harad and Rhun units all from the same base, and the problem is that is that the three realms are very very different, and the Edain Mod has been trying to keep nations apart, such as separating them into outposts and bases, and by putting all three realms together you do each an injustice. The Cataphact of Rhun is also a really iconic unit for Rhun and so it is missed dearly in your proposal.   
I would suggest looking at my concept here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1P6gcEVaor8HkBdzO3EOeDpMsIxbLHbjLiPUB0YBz6A4/edit
for inspiration on how to handle such radically different realms, and as a model on how you can structure your proposal as it currently is a bit unclear.
All your words are but to say: you are a woman, and your part is in the house. But when the men have died in battle and honour, you have leave to be burned in the house, for the men will need it no more. But I am of the House of Eorl and not a serving-woman. I can ride and wield blade, and I do not fear either pain or death.

But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Éomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.


My avatar is Romana, a favorite person of mine

FilipGeorg95

  • Thain des Auenlandes
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Re: A possible new Evil Men faction
« Antwort #84 am: 5. Feb 2017, 12:01 »
My concept was made from what we know from the lore, drawings, concept art, movies. Yes, I have combined them together even though there can be a possibility to use some realms as outpost possibility.
Also, I don't like all of Games Workshop miniatures given for these four realms, instead I prefer what we know from the books. Apart from that, I leave open space for everyone to discuss about this theme that is why in my concept I left open space for outpost and heroes variations.
Also I tried to structure them with all aspects given for how a faction should look like and therefore I wanted to give a closer look from history ( note that Tolkien uses parts of mythology and history as well ) in order to fit them in Edain style.
Also I think that if we fill them with such various units such as Templars or magicians wouldn't fill their role as numerous allies able to field vast armies armed for war, but cultists who prefer magic and small elite that will destroy everything.
The concept was based during the War of the Ring because the mod is about that war combined with the events in the Hobbit. I agree that during the Second Age and later, in the Third Age the numenoreans held the city of Umbar and Wainriders stroke fear in the hearts of gondorians, but those events were long ended and gone.
My point is to give them a diverse gameplay which I stated in the ring system and hero system.
I hope that after all, there could be a way out to use both concepts in order to create a faction which deserves its appearance in this mod.

lordoflinks

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Re: A possible new Evil Men faction
« Antwort #85 am: 5. Feb 2017, 13:35 »
Please do not take any of my below comments personally, as I shall be brutally honest,  with you. My thoughts are below in no particular order
  • My first flaw is that I believe the Misty Mountains are using a hero system to upgrade their buildings, please correct me if I am wrong
  • My second flaw is that your ideas need to be organized in a table, at the moment they are hard to discern and its hard to work out what units you are proposing clearly and quickly
  • Not a flaw per say, but the Wainriders are the ones who rode chariots so if you are including Chariots you are including them
  • I feel you have misunderstood my concept, in my and Bluewizard's concept Rhun will have to field large armies regardless as they lack effective ranged siege and will need meat shields, the Dark Numenoreans are there to provide variety and offer them diversity, because if the player feels the need to have large armies they can pick Khand or Harad to ally with
  • I am deeply sorry for any emotional pain I am about to cause you. To be frank while it is utterly brilliant your concept is so faithful to the lore, I do not believe it would be fun to play as. Its just that the main base seems like it will be a mash of very different structures, something the Edain team has been avoiding, as we have seen with Mordor being given a consistent style in their main base. While the men were allied they were not best friends either, so why would they all move into the same camp? In addition it seems like the buildings follow Gondor's pattern too much for my liking.
    It reminds me of the BFME II Men of the West Fraction that threw Rohan and Gondor into the same fraction with little thought, (You have given thought however, I am not implying you did not). Too me at least the units also seem a bit... plain, lacking many of the wonderful units others sources brought to the table. The Ring Hero system, while it makes sense in your concept, the whole point of it is that it is a 'what if'; hence why Angmar Witch-King wields it rather than sending it to Sauron. 
  • I think our two concepts are too different reconcile, as mine focuses on the ally system drawing from non-canonical sources, while yours seemed to be aimed at staying true to cannon no matter the cost. There is also the fact my concept is completely finished so I have to wish to edit it lest I disrupt my concepts consistency and theme.   
    My advice for you is thus: Reorganize your concepts into a table for clarity for the reader, make Khand and Umbar into settlements, and decide whether Harad or Rhun will be the main fraction, make the other into the outpost, as frankly in the current version of your concept I have no idea what the outpost could be as all 4 nations are in the main base. This will maintain visual consistency. You can also steal any of the heroes I have in my concept. 
I don't think I can ever like your concept but I think my above advice will help you convince others to like it. Have a lovely day.
« Letzte Änderung: 5. Feb 2017, 13:41 von lordoflinks »
All your words are but to say: you are a woman, and your part is in the house. But when the men have died in battle and honour, you have leave to be burned in the house, for the men will need it no more. But I am of the House of Eorl and not a serving-woman. I can ride and wield blade, and I do not fear either pain or death.

But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Éomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.


My avatar is Romana, a favorite person of mine

FilipGeorg95

  • Thain des Auenlandes
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  • Beiträge: 43
Re: A possible new Evil Men faction
« Antwort #86 am: 5. Feb 2017, 14:10 »
About the Misty Mountains faction, none of the community has clear picture of their new system in Edain 4.0. In the previous version of 3.8.1 they used hero upgrade system but that version is old.
About the magicians I think that they would be added in the concept for Dorwinion which can be seen here on MU forums and Edain Wiki.
About the table system, I would say that it is up to the one who is constructing the whole concept, I personally prefer essays because that is my real life profession and thus I have stated everything in sub-topics in the whole concept with using Bold-ed letters. Apart from that I leave space for the outpost concept and heroes which I clearly wrote in the essay and concerning about the chariots, in my second page I exposed a sentence from Tolkien describing what Frodo saw at Amon Hen while using the Ring and apart of all the horrors, he saw army of the East leaded by warlords on chariots/wains.
And lastly, I appreciate Your advice, and also have a good day

Garlodur

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  • In Moria, in Khazad-Dûm
Re: A possible new Evil Men faction
« Antwort #87 am: 9. Mär 2017, 18:57 »
Greetings Companions of Edain,

I have come to this deeply hidden part of the forum to share my concept of a Men of Darkness faction with you.

Men of Darkness

Summed up, this faction concept includes Evil Men allied with Sauron at the time of the War of the Ring, essentially divided into Easterlings from Rhûn, Haradrim/Southrons from Harad, Variag from Khand, and Corsairs/Black Numenoreans from Umbar. Each subfaction will fill a specific niche on the battlefield, with the main axis the faction being versatility. Each subfaction has different strategic and tactical utility to the extent that in some games it might be necessary to focus efforts into a combination of several, as opposed to a very linear and supportive mechanism of one main faction with subordinated units from subfactions.

The proposal as a whole can be viewed through this link:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6ZAJba8AKiTa09pZWZyNXFRazg/view?usp=sharing

NOTE: I have been working on this proposal for roughly a year at different intensities, trying to follow the decisions, philosophy and tendencies of the Edain Team. However, I do not have experience in modding this game, so do not hold me accountable for technically impossible mechanisms; in fact, I have tried to fit my ideas into what I know ET to be capable of.

In concrete I want to present the heroes of this faction, as I deem this to be the most completed part of the proposal, which I am also very proud of.


Fredius

  • Edain Betatesting
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Re: A possible new Evil Men faction
« Antwort #88 am: 9. Mär 2017, 20:17 »
Well done on this concept, I agree with the most part of it :). Personally I prefer the option in which the player chooses if they want either Harad or Rhun as their main base, but I believe that is (sadly) technically not possible; if it ain't possible then I would choose Rhun as the main base, since I like the red wood and golden roofs design of vanilla BFME2 :).

lordoflinks

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Re: A possible new Evil Men faction
« Antwort #89 am: 10. Mär 2017, 12:50 »
I am very impressed however I do disagree on a few points:
1. I feel personally Khamul has too much of an influence in you concept; during the time period of the WotR he was the captain of Dol Guldur and so it feels odd that he would leave to deal with the East, rather I think there should be a separate Easterling Emperor, mind you I am biased as I have my own concept. (Personally I think Khamul is suited as an ultimate spell to capture his true might and power); also they can't start with Kamul in WotR as then you have two khamuls walking around if Mordor is in the game (Angmar is acceptable as they are not set in WotR)
2. One game play concern I have is that Khamul as a ring hero seems very OP as a player could wait till they find the ring and spawn him on top of it, which seems unfair to the enemy
3. About your interpretation of the Variags, I feel gameplay wise they should be a pure mongolian horde so they do not clash with the Black Numenoreans in term of themes and role
4. What about the Dragon Throne giving Rhun a full wall as an idea? (I believe that is technically possible)   
5. I hope if your concept is used the greek designs are not, as in my mind they fit better in Dorwinion
6. Nice going merging Suldan and the Golden King (I did not even know Suldan was in the Edain mod)
Overall I have felt your concept is very impressive and I think if any concept will be chosen in this thread it will be yours (This is me conceding defeat...) although personally I prefer my own (as it is natural) as I am a sucker for symmetry and structure and that is what my concept embodies.
All your words are but to say: you are a woman, and your part is in the house. But when the men have died in battle and honour, you have leave to be burned in the house, for the men will need it no more. But I am of the House of Eorl and not a serving-woman. I can ride and wield blade, and I do not fear either pain or death.

But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Éomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.


My avatar is Romana, a favorite person of mine