[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] General Suggestions

Misty Mountains concept images

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Spacetyrant93:
All very interesting ideas in this thread :) let us see...

About Azog and Bolg, if the team wants to simply keep Azog as The Defiler's pretty much fine with me, that way all can be content. Though, I approve of the armor. Also, technically he does have a commanding role, for at this point he is the leader of Gundabad, as the Great Goblin's for Goblintown and the new Gorkill (Goblin/Orc Chieftain was it?) for Moria, and Bolg leads them all. So it makes sense that a leader of the armoured/strong faction and his troops are given a fit armor.

I like how Dol Guldur orcs are right now, to me it seemed like they looked like the movie's army. Yet, for Gundabad, I too vote for the armor Fredius posted, looks nicely different from the others.

Dol Guldur, I'd say, should remain in Mordor, with the Evil Men implemented on their own as said. Yet, I would not exclude an ability that calls forth troops from Dol Guldur to aid, since technically in the movie both Gundabad and Dol Guldur's forces engaged in the battle. While not technically very lore-ish, it could help differentiate it all. Troops of Orcs would come, together with a couple Armored Trolls from the movie. This would include them without heavily disrupting the play, I think.

Or another idea yet would be for every Goblin sub-faction to have their own Trolls:
-Moria gives cheaper, very movable and versatile, but a little more frail, Cave Trolls (both melee and siege)
-Gundabad gives expensive and trong, but slow armored Trolls (melee, heavy attacks, maybe a maximum of 3)
-Goblintown gives the average costing Troll Catapult from the movie (siege) NOTE:it looked like Goblintown orcs were the ones operating it

I do like the Wereworm spell.

I wouldn't complain if the Gundabad fortress was implemented, it had a nice and distinctive look.

One suggestion I would make, if I may, would be not to use the Giants. technically, while Dragons did fight in some of the wars, Giants were never seen around (or at least it wasn't told of them) so, while cool and a useful siege unit, they kinda seem off. I could dare to say the main siege unit could be the Troll-Catapults from the movie. I know they weren't liked, but for Goblins to build their machines atop beasts actually makes sense, for they travel unstable and rocky places, where a wheel-driven siege machine would pretty much be useless.
If the original Giants from the game are used, I'd propose to consider them a 'higher' breed of Trolls, and to put another ultimate spell alongside the Balrog that has the Rock Giants (movie, but they remain unseen) throw a humongous boulder on a selected area, kinda like Angmar's avalanche, but just one big hit, that makes a huge damage.

Walküre:
I would also like to add further information about the BOTFA Gundabad fortress.

I remember that there has already been a similar debate about a possible addition of the films' model, the one we saw in BOTFA; and I also remember that the Edain Team had consequently answered that suggestion.
There are two pretty clear posts from both Ealendril and Gnomi about this matter.

http://en.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,31616.msg406752.html#msg406752

http://en.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,31616.msg407659.html#msg407659

This means that, as far as these official statements tell, there is currently no will of implementing this design in the game.

But, apart from formalities, I don't think that things will necessarily stick to these intentions; as it happened regarding the Dwarves, when plans have been modified to find and make other great unexpected innovations that I'm sure not many people were expecting.
So, as I exactly wrote above, the only thing I would suggest doing is waiting for future news, as we don't really know how everything will evolve by now  :)

If you want my personal opinion along with these official news, I would say that I feel kind of strangely about that design.
I theoretically don't like it so much, as I believe that the outcome could have been better, but I also don't appreciate very much the vanilla design of the previous Goblins faction.
So, I hope that some changes will indeed find their way for the Misty Mountains faction, and that, who knows, the Edain Team will be able to find a compromise between their vision and the one of the films, just like the recent BOTFA Iron Hills design (which is not entirely based on the Hobbit, but it also presents some very Edain-ish modifications).

Azog The Defiler:
Mkey so established in this thread:

BOTFA armor should remain with the Dol Guldur orcs and get a rework.
The Gundabad orcs would recieve the armor fredius posted.

BOTFA trolls, i think they could go for mordor trolls as an armor upgrade. The trolls get heavy armor but only a wooden club so they serve you as tank trolls while the other troll upgrade is for more damage output for your trolls.
Or they could be for Gundabad or some summon as someone mentioned.

Were worms would be a good idea.

I too like the idea of Goblintown having troll catapults, seems like something they could build there.

Gundabad fortress, its unfortunate if they dont want to implement it, but its their mod:D
But i think it would make sense to have a Gundabad fortress which is also an armory. Since the orcs had Gundabad as a great fortress and then built holds going from Gundabad to Gladden, this would be symbolized by the gundabad camp and then having a fortress.
It wouldnt have to look like in the movie but it does have a pretty cool look.
Also i would think the orcs would use the forges of gundabad for armor instead of building their own in the camps

Garlodur:
In my opinion we don't have to look very far for how a Gundabad fortress would look. I would suggest the Vanilla Goblin fortress as I always digged its style; it really showed the wild side of building out in the open.
In the same line I also liked the Goblin Cave because they actually looked like caves. Something similar could be considered for the Gundabad fortress on the outpost (it should be connected to the tunnel network for starters). Yet, on the other side, it is a fortress that mainly serves to equip the orcs and goblins from the north.

Regarding the appearance of those Gundabad orcs, I would like to see the white/pale coloured orcs like the ones that Bolg led to Ravenhill in BOTFA. It enhance diversity within the race of orcs, plus they are more distinguishable. Their initial armour should show signs of fur/hair and only cover the essentials but with an upgraded armour that covers their whole body they most likely lose their pale appearance. I don't know how to fix this. I do like the idea of having the fortress also function as a forge.

Melkor Bauglir:
I think the most important question still is, if of all the factions the Misty Mountains (possibly the most aggressive and most focused on expansion, yet with really weak fortresses) should get such a stronghold on their outposts? I think such a building is a totally inappropriate building for the Misty Mountains in general.
Also, I still don't see a reason for such a variaty in trolls: Misty Mountains already has a huge variety of monsters (the biggest of all factions to be clear) and armored trolls were always a Mordor unit -in Edain 4.0 more than ever, because of the new differences of the both units. I'm totally fine with armored trolls as a summon, because some of the armor looked indeed fairly nice, but they are just completely unnecessary as a regular unit. (Apart from that in Edain Moria recruits the trolls and those are influenced by the cave trolls of "The Fellowship of the Ring". And there is no way of adding other troll barracks for the other factions without destroyed the building symmetry of the tree orc-realms.)
Now a more personal point: Please spare me these stupid troll-giants! I mean, originally trolls were only really, really huge men (just read the chapter of the Black Gate battle -there is no way those trolls were this ludicrously large, otherwise they would not die from a single hobbit's stab or not crush Beregond directly, when he got hit). In the LotR films they were a lot larger, but still in a realistic way. In the Hobbit however those trolls often are about 10m high, giving zero continuity between LotR and Hobbit (why would none of the evil leaders use these giants or create the Uruk-Hai if there are just 3m high orcs waiting in the Misty Mountains, directly at Isengard's threshold?). There are a lot more things, I might add right now, but I'm just filled with utter hatred for these abominations and possibly the guys who though they were a good idea. :D


Greetings
Melkor Bauglir

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