[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] General Suggestions

Misty Mountains concept images

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Fredius:
I'm firmly against removing Dol Guldur from Mordor. I myself love the diversity in Mordor; when I play against Lothlorien or Dwarves I use Dol Guldur, when I play against Gondor or Rohan I use Minas Morgul. Also the armor shown in the movies is forged in Dol Guldur, not in Gundabad, therefore the armor belongs to the Dol Guldur orcs. I do agree that it needs to be updated though.

However this armor is made in Gundabad, and should be used as a heavy armor upgrade for their Orcs imo:

The problem with this concept is that the faction relies on Gundabad as the major power in the MM faction. Edain's concept, however, makes the MM supposed to be three different factions all with their own unique traits. Noone is stronger than the other.  But in any case let's just wait untill we see what Edain is planning to do with this faction, which is also one of my favorites ;).

Walküre:
First of all, thank you Azog for having expressed your proposals  :)

As others have rightly and already written here, the Misty Mountains faction is still in the development phase, needing definitely more attention than Rivendell, because it's arguably the most particular faction compared to the other ones; we should thus really wait for more detailed and specific news, I guess, because I feel that there will be important changes for the Goblins as well, as also the other factions were concretely modified from the initial plan.

Nevertheless, it's also legitimate discussing about it if there are suggestions that one might think that they would fit well in the Edain Mod.
So, I want to make some considerations about what you have suggested, accordingly to the official information we have had so far.

1. Technically, Azog doesn't exist in the Edain Mod  :P

It's true that the Defiler's design is entirely fashioned from the Azog of AUJ, but Azog, as a character, died in the battle of Azanulbizar and he's thus excluded from the timeline of the faction, set during the events of the Hobbit.

This precisely means that, currently, there is 'only' the Defiler, who will also be characterised by a hunter-like nature, which obviously defines both his status in his faction and his abilities, and not the one of a general.

2. I don't totally agree with removing Dol Guldur as well.
The fortress entirely belongs to Sauron (and consequently Mordor), and it's always been deeply connected to the powers of its Master so that its very integrity and magical (negative) nature depend solely on Sauron (and we understand clearly, then, why it was necessary the Magic of Galadriel to tear down the fortress, and not 'just' the action of a regular army).

Sauron hid himself for centuries in Dol Guldur, and this caused the progressive corruption of a large portion of the already enormous Mirkwood.
When the Fellowship is escorted to Lothlórien by Haldir, Tolkien clearly describes how everything around Dol Guldur had become tainted and dead, withering due to the evil emanation from that fortress.

Therefore, yes, Minas Morgul is iconically known for its link to magical poison, but Dol Guldur too is characterised by a strong 'poisonous nature', which directly derives from Sauron himself and not by the Witch-king.

3. This matter has been debated a lot both here and on ModDB within the Edain Community.
What people's desires are related to, according to the discussion and polls, is the will of having the Evil Men available as a faction themselves, as it should legitimately be.

The implementation of the Evil Men via the spellbook is currently meant to symbolise how the Evil Men came in aid for Mordor as allies from far regions, and that they never entirely belonged to the Dark Lord, primarily because their malice and evilness are profoundly different from the Orcs' or the other foul creatures'.
Therefore, if the Evil Men will really have much more space, it had better be within a faction of their own, in my opinion.

Anyway, this is the thread I was talking about regarding them; you are more than welcome if you want to join it  ;)

http://forum.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,32416.msg424817.html#msg424817

4. It's not that Mordor has a lot of units in a very confused ensemble.
It must be that way for gameplay and conceptual reasons.

Mordor can't upgrade in most of the cases its units with armours or forged blades.
That's why it needs a wide range of different units/heroes with different features and abilities (mainly with negative effects).
Also because having huge armies on its control is exactly one of Mordor's dreadful aspects in the lore.

Eventually, apart from these themes, I don't think that everything must necessarily remain this way.
I too expressed my desire of having more concepts from the Hobbit trilogy implemented in the faction, especially a more similar model of Smaug than the current one (which still resembles him in his general traits).

Just, as Fredius wrote, the Misty Mountains are still a bit of a mystery, and we don't know yet what kind of new plans and changes the Edain Team could opt for in the future  :)

Azog The Defiler:
I really like that design on the Gundabad orcs, but i think it was stated somewhere that there wasnt enough material for them. But if The Gundabad orcs got this armor and the Dol Guldur orcs could have the BOTFA armor (which would recieve further work), and i would be more than happy. It would actually be the best solution. This way not that much would actually change for both factions.

And yes i see your point on using Morgul and Dol Guldur orcs against different factions.

And also on the Azog matter. Since he probably wont be Azog in the mod, i dont see the point where he has to belong to MM faction. i Think it would be a nice addition to add him to Mordor to be a commander of the Dol Guldur orcs, recruited from Dol Guldur. And then Gothmog would be moved from the main fortress to be recruited from Minas Morgul as he commands the Morgul orcs. MM could just have another hunter orc in his place.


But my main goals with this post:

1. Botfa armor implemented,
- either to Gundabad orcs as upgrade, or they could recive the armor fredius posted
- or the current Dol Guldur orcs would get a rework

2. Botfa armor for the trolls implemented
- either for MM faction
- or somehow for mordor faction
- but the point is that the botfa armored orcs have botfa armored trolls, whichever faction they go to

3. Azog would get a better role as a leader
- either for MM faction so the timeline is changed a little and hes the leader of the whole faction with Bolg at his side
- or anonymous for Dol Guldur as a commander so you could have a botfa army led by a proper leader.

4. Gundabad fortress would certainly be a nice addition for MM, working as a defensive base and armory.

5. And last the wereworm would be incredible ro have.

Melkor Bauglir:
I pretty much completely agree with DieWalküre and Fredius, not much to add.
Also there has been a pretty nice discussion about armored trolls for the Misty Mountains, I don't seem to find right now. Basically there is a very fundamental thing speaking against armored trolls here: Mordor's trolls are designed to be more organized (can't throw rocks or use trees), but do possess upgrades giving them a more advanced look. In comparison, the cave trolls are wild beasts who more or less happen to fight along the goblins. A nice compromise we ended up was to replace the "Untamed Alliance" spell as it is basically useless now (or better: it just isn't replaced, yet ;)). The new spell would then summon a number of armored trolls (probably not too many, because it's only a second tier spell, but of course we could do something like the number of trolls increases with the amount of tunnels for example). Everyone would be happy: The DG-armor would find its way into the game as it looks rather nice, Misty Mountains would not change into a war machinery and a relic from older versions (Untamed Alliance) would find final peace. :D

Greetings
Melkor Bauglir

Azog The Defiler:
Yes i saw the discussion:)
But i think it would be nice to have DG trolls implemented in the mordor faction to fit your DG army.
They could serve you as tank trolls since the DG orcs arent that durable, and the regular trolls go better with minas morgul as the morgul orcs are very durable.

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