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Autor Thema: The LOTR Trilogy  (Gelesen 13515 mal)

Adamin

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Re: The LOTR Trilogy
« Antwort #15 am: 30. Jan 2016, 16:17 »
Weeell, the picture is simplifying a lot of backstory... Morgoth might have been more powerful than Sauron, but he was satisfied with sitting in the north of Beleriand with the Silmarils upon his head. Sauron on the other hand was always waging war somewhere in Middle-earth and ruling or conquering lands. So who was more effective in the "King of all Earth" business?  ;)


The reason I place Two Towers higher than RotK is because I feel it's that bit closer to the books (ok, forget the Elves)
And forget that Faramirs Character was completely butchered and thrown under the bus for dramatic reasons! :D

But that aside I also like the second movier very much. Every one of the movies has its unique perks. Fellowship is much more magical and fairytale like. Towers has the drama and great battle action. Return is the climax of everything.

Walküre

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Re: The LOTR Trilogy
« Antwort #16 am: 1. Feb 2016, 17:21 »
Exactly, I agree with the focus of the Two Towers on drama and characters development.

Especially, I always appreciated how the character of Éowyn was designed and fashioned within the plot, and her role in that common 'Anglo-Saxon'-inspired context that is nothing more than the whole conceptual context of Rohan.
For example, I think that this is one of the precious yet 'small' pieces that always remind us the higher quality of the holistic material of this trilogy (something that I couldn't really recall in the Hobbit).
It's an extended scene of the iconic Théodred's funeral, in which she sings a touching lament in Rohirric (basically Old English:)

https://youtube.com/watch?v=jjlxzXO1L1M
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bookworm1138

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Re: The LOTR Trilogy
« Antwort #17 am: 1. Feb 2016, 18:25 »
Zitat
The reason I place Two Towers higher than RotK is because I feel it's that bit closer to the books in depicting the struggles of Rohan and the development of the characters. It has almost no cheesiness whatsoever. You don't feel any rush in the events.

The attack on the Westfold at the beginning of the film makes me cringe every time I watch The Two Towers. Call me heartless, but it just feels like Peter Jackson is just bashing the audience over the head with the hammer of melodrama.

The over-emphasis placed on the Battle of Helm's Deep (how many times in the build-up is the battle being referred to as a lost cause? That the heroes have no chance of winning? And did we really have to see little six-year-old boys being armed and armored? Once again, the hammer of melodrama comes crashing down upon our heads.)

Zitat
It has almost no cheesiness whatsoever.

Glad you pointed out Sam's speech, because up until "Folk in those stories had lots of chances of turning back, only they didn't", it was more or less based on things that Tolkien had written in the Lord of the Rings books. Then, of course, instead of letting it be, Peter Jackson has to brandish the hammer of melodrama and drop upon our heads the cheesiest line of the entire films (including the one Galadriel said to Frodo in Fellowship):

Zitat
"There's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo, and it's worth fighting for."

CHEESIEST. LINE. EVER!!!

PS - if you think me heartless, maybe i am. but that doesn't mean that, subjectively, my view on The Two Towers is any less valid.

PPS - before you say that i'm "nitpicking", no, nitpicking would be calling the script-writer out every time they put in a line like "orcs are on the move", "those wraiths are still out there" or "if i was an orc, you'd be dead by now."
"He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom."


Walküre

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Re: The LOTR Trilogy
« Antwort #18 am: 1. Feb 2016, 19:36 »
The over-emphasis placed on the Battle of Helm's Deep (how many times in the build-up is the battle being referred to as a lost cause? That the heroes have no chance of winning? And did we really have to see little six-year-old boys being armed and armored? Once again, the hammer of melodrama comes crashing down upon our heads.)


But, honestly, was this really a negative aspect?
I obviously respect your opinion, but I would personally view things in the opposite way.

The dramatisation and the climax (as in an ascension) in the construction of the film's plot was almost perfect and complete, intended as starting with a general negative situation, explaining contexts and developing characters, and, in the final step, the awaited and longed resolving battle, in which either the Good or the Evil must prevail.
I honestly think that this was exactly the film's strong and solid quality.

As other ones have already pointed out, both FOTR and ROTK kind of lacked this completeness in their own plot, but mainly due to 'physiological' reasons, deep in their very essence.
The first film was in fact the prelude of everything, with a mythical and fairytale-like essence, like Adamin wrote; the only prominent battle between Good and Evil is the one between Gandalf and the Balrog, but it wasn't definitely something expected nor was it constructed throughout the plot.
ROTK was the epilogue of the holistic picture; on the other hand, we could say that the plot was way too much (intentionally, obviously, according to the film's characteristics) constructed and planned, and that the initial phase of 'development' of settings and characters was not really accomplished because not necessary.

Therefore, I believe we could regard the second film as the most balanced regarding these aspects.
As if, as I wrote above, it dealt with a story in the story, a parenthesis of Rohan related to Middle Earth's events, but at the same time complete in its own development and existence  :)
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Faramir The Gentle

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Re: The LOTR Trilogy
« Antwort #19 am: 20. Feb 2016, 10:38 »
Does PJ ever justified why he portrayed gondor troops so weak in the movie

Walküre

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Re: The LOTR Trilogy
« Antwort #20 am: 20. Feb 2016, 19:22 »
Does PJ ever justified why he portrayed gondor troops so weak in the movie

Interesting, I always had the opposite sensation.
The fact that many of them died is more due to Mordor's own status in the War of the Ring.

Mordor launched a heavy assault against all Middle Earth – specifically against Gondor – that caught almost everyone unprepared to face such endless and dreadful hordes of Orcs and more deadly foul creatures.
Minas Tirith would have been inevitably doomed if not for the arrival of Rohan in its aid.

Therefore, you can see it that way: Gondor's troops were brave and fought until the end, but Mordor was just too much for any mere soldier.
This constant 'We are doomed' fate is well and rightly represented throughout the whole trilogy, because Sauron is indeed the ultimate Enemy, thus displaying a sort of ultimate conflict between the Good and the Evil for the freedom of the World.
This is what the War of the Ring is mainly and exactly about  :)
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Fredius

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Re: The LOTR Trilogy
« Antwort #21 am: 20. Feb 2016, 21:06 »
Yes but can you justify the archers who were so genius to shoot at inanimate siege towers instead of the trolls pushing them? Gandalf must have facepalmed so hard that day :P.

Walküre

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Re: The LOTR Trilogy
« Antwort #22 am: 20. Feb 2016, 21:57 »
Yes but can you justify the archers who were so genius to shoot at inanimate siege towers instead of the trolls pushing them? Gandalf must have facepalmed so hard that day :P.

I admit I was mainly looking at the philosophical/theoretical aspect, as I often do  xD

Yes, that was honestly a bit puzzling.
But, I hope that we will agree with saying that those soldiers were nonetheless heroic at containing the assault in the first level  :)
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Fredius

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Re: The LOTR Trilogy
« Antwort #23 am: 20. Feb 2016, 23:02 »
Aye agreed, they gave me enough reason to make them become my favorite army in the LOTR universe.

Faramir The Gentle

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Re: The LOTR Trilogy
« Antwort #24 am: 21. Feb 2016, 13:48 »
Aye agreed, they gave me enough reason to make them become my favorite army in the LOTR universe.

Yes Gondor is my favorite army also, but what happened to the rangers did anyone of them survive?
What about the scene when gondor watchman was killed by an orc arrow even wearing plate armor? in Osgilliath

hoho96

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Re: The LOTR Trilogy
« Antwort #25 am: 22. Feb 2016, 21:16 »
Aye agreed, they gave me enough reason to make them become my favorite army in the LOTR universe.

Yes Gondor is my favorite army also, but what happened to the rangers did anyone of them survive?
What about the scene when gondor watchman was killed by an orc arrow even wearing plate armor? in Osgilliath
The Rangers retreated to Osgiliath where many died of course :P then Faramir lead then back to MinasTirith where they joined the defence.

Believe it or not, plate armor is the worst when it comes to countering piercing attacks (arrows, spears, pikes,...). It is primarily to fend off slashing and stabbing by swords, but when you shoot it with arrows, if the arrow mass and speed is enough, the armor will most likely break (like throwing a knife at a cardboard).
Chain mail, however, was designed to counter piercing. It has no solid surface for the arrow to pierce, but act more like a net catching a ball, which minimize the damage to the soldier.

Walküre

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Re: The LOTR Trilogy
« Antwort #26 am: 21. Apr 2016, 01:38 »
I was recently watching again some extended scenes from LOTR, and I particularly enjoyed this one. It's the scene in which Aragorn finally unveils the 'mystery' of his longevity. It's really smart how they managed to introduce us (indirectly) to Númenor and the 'Northern Kingdom' (Arnor); actually, albeit mentioning them glancely, we are told that Númenóreans were legendary Men and that Arnor was destroyed (in the war against Angmar). Very smart indeed, also because of the context of the very footage itself, which doesn't seem at all to be so solemn and mythical.
I'm literally in love with these very peculiar parentheses inserted into the film narrative  :)


Do you have any other smart parenthesis in mind that you might want to share with us?
By the way, that soup/stew doesn't really give the idea of being one of the finest Rohan's delicatessens  :D
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Walküre

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Re: The LOTR Trilogy
« Antwort #27 am: 28. Apr 2016, 01:35 »
Speaking about extended scenes, if you don't have knowledge of them yet, this is a little compilation of some of the scenes that were ultimately deleted both from the final version and from the extended version of LOTR (they are thus truly deleted scenes, not just extended scenes).


I think there are still many unseen and 'mysterious' elements that are somehow hidden about LOTR. Beside these scenes, there are also a lot of behind-the-scenes pictures and footage of other scenes and alternative renditions that were eventually rejected. For example, I have a very vague remembrance of having seen, when I was a child, a sort of LOTR art book in which there were authentic pictures of the Goblins of Moria in a forest, during the night (pictures that are likely to come from the official footage). In addition to that, I discovered that they indeed filmed a sequence showing the Goblins coming out from Moria (thus, the warning of Aragorn about the hills that would have been swarming with Orcs could be a hint) and entering the Woods of Lórien, just to be exterminated by the Elves afterwards (something that actually happened in the books).

But, probably, apart from the deleted footage of the Last Alliance showing more frames of Gil Galad and Elendil, one of the most known deleted aspects of the trilogy is the original plot regarding Arwen and the Helm's Deep Battle, according to which she and Elrond went to Lothlórien to discuss the war and she was somehow sent with Haldir to the Helm's Deep, in order to support Aragorn and the defending forces of Rohan. There are many evidences here and there throughout the Internet, but the most famous one is actually in the very The Two Towers!

You can see Arwen, dressed in red, riding a horse and charging the Uruk-hai away from the battlefield, after the arrival of Gandalf. It's really a very fast frame.

« Letzte Änderung: 28. Apr 2016, 01:44 von DieWalküre »
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Walküre

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Re: The LOTR Trilogy
« Antwort #28 am: 11. Mai 2016, 12:31 »
The ethereal Arwen and the brave Éowyn. So much similar in their kindheartedness yet so much different. This is something interesting I found out quite some time ago; a very nice ensemble of the most significant scenes concerning our two heroines, with the amazing music of Enya in the background  ;)

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Nki5pSXcmDI
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The_Necromancer0

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Re: The LOTR Trilogy
« Antwort #29 am: 15. Mai 2016, 11:06 »
What's up with rocks and hobbits? I mean they've got the accuracy of an elf and the strength of a dwarf. Is it the same in the books? My memory is a bit hazy.
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