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Autor Thema: New Iron Hills Hero  (Gelesen 6614 mal)

Elite KryPtik

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New Iron Hills Hero
« am: 8. Feb 2016, 22:30 »
So, we have had the problem of lacking source material for some time now in regards to making a 5th Iron Hills hero. Fortunately, the 3rd Hobbit movie provides something to work with, in the form of the captain that shouts the quotes, such as "Tanar! Durin Nur!". Now I'm making this post off-handedly because Dwarves are not my favorite faction, but I'm sure that this dwarf captain could fit in somehow, perhaps as a unit supporter? I don't really have any great ideas at the moment for abilities that wouldn't be similar to Dains abilities, but I'm sure some of the bigger fans of the Dwarves on the forums could come up with some cool concepts.

I'm just making this thread to get some ideas rolling, because as far as I know nobody has suggested the captain as a suitable candidate for a hero. We have other heroes with similarly small amounts of screen time (Bill Ferny, Hama) so I think that wouldn't be an issue. Lets see what you've got people! I'll post some ideas later if I think of any :)
Arise! Arise, Riders of Theoden! Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter! Spear shall be shaken! Shield shall be splintered! A sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now! Ride now! Ride, ride to ruin, and the worlds ending! FORTH EORLINGAS!

Odysseus

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Re: New Iron Hills Hero
« Antwort #1 am: 8. Feb 2016, 22:52 »
Well, there have been a couple of interesting ideas already to complement IH's lack of heroes. My favourite so far is the messenger Narin, but he's not completely lore-accurate, if I am not mistaken. There was the Chariot Hero, which could be interesting, but I would rather keep something like this for the Evil Men, and I myself, had proposed to make The Dragonslayer a non-canonical hero for Ered Mithrin. He already performs like one [ugly].
The captain could be interesting I suppose! Although, I have no idea what he would really do apart from buff troops through specific warcries. Maybe if you suggested a couple of things, we would some extra stuff to work with?

“For so sworn good or evil an oath may not be broken and it shall pursue oathkeeper and oathbreaker to the world's end.”

Melkor Bauglir

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Re: New Iron Hills Hero
« Antwort #2 am: 8. Feb 2016, 23:06 »
Hmm. I think, it might be better to wait untill the reworked Dwarves are released. At the moment IH has more of an EG-focus (speed), in the next version they basically have Ered Luin's army, therefore this problem is balanced out a lot more.
Also: I am going to repeat myself, but IH has crucial advantages compared to the other realms for their lack of heroes:
1) They are missing a scout hero. Of course this takes away one portrait in the hero panel, but it doesn't result in a specific weakness. Yes, they can't summon ressources, but instead three cavalry bataillons. They don't appear as heroes, but that isn't a real disadvantage.
2) Secondly they are missing their outpost hero, however their outpost-troops are massively stronger, the Dragonslayer is basically a hero-substitution and they have the Mighty Catapult which should create the combat effectiveness of another hero (or at the very least decrease the hero-lacking-problem).

Greetings
Melkor Bauglir
« Letzte Änderung: 8. Feb 2016, 23:09 von Melkor Bauglir »

LordDainIronfoot

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Re: New Iron Hills Hero
« Antwort #3 am: 8. Feb 2016, 23:10 »

Narin is absolutely Lore Friendly,he is based on Dain's Messenger from the Book,which sadly don't have a name and we invented one! :-)
"I will not stand down before any Elf,not least this Faithless Woodland Sprite,he wishesh nothing but ill upon my people...To Battle,to Battle Sons of Durin!!!..."

"You,think I give a dead dog about your threats you Pointy Ear Princess...Hear now lads,we are on...Let's give those bastards a good Hammering!!!..."

Walküre

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Re: New Iron Hills Hero
« Antwort #4 am: 8. Feb 2016, 23:36 »
Hi Elite  :)

It's not really true that we don't have any great proposal at hand  :P
This matter has always caught the attention of many people among the Edain Community, especially the English Community, I have to say, from the very 'earliest times' of the English Community itself, if I'm not wrong.
Therefore, it's not a surprise if users started to deal with this aspect very soon.

Anyway, so far, the two proposals 'worthy' of being mentioned (I'm not undermining the other ones, but 'worthy' means that those two proposals have reached a satisfying level of construction and conceptual consistency) are the ones about Narin and a possible Chariot Hero.
I will begin to say that I regard the last one as not so complete and consistent yet; if you look at the related debate, you will find that some objections (including mine) have been raised against that possibility.
So, I would say that the chariot hero proposal needs still some further development, if it aims to be a 'competitive candidate'.

Said that, let's talk about Narin  :)
Explaining the whole proposal here would be unnecessary, also because other people have already taken care of this task.
Simply said: it's a very lore accurate (there are references in the lore) suggestion, well structured and conceived in almost all of its aspects.
It was originally an idea of Tienety, then developed by Dáin and CragLord as well.
This suggestion consequently started a very intense and constructive discussion (one of the most popular ones) and it was proven to be accepted by the large majority of the Community via its relative poll.

This is the main and explanatory post of the proposal, but I also suggest you read even the other comments if you want a wider perspective.

http://en.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,30870.msg406199.html#msg406199

I don't obviously know the plans of the Edain Team, but, in my opinion, I think that Narin has all the right premises to have concrete chances of being implemented in the game.

EDIT: It seems that I arrived a bit late  :D
Nevertheless, this is the core of the matter  ;)

Elite KryPtik

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Re: New Iron Hills Hero
« Antwort #5 am: 9. Feb 2016, 09:56 »
I'm afraid you have all misunderstood my intent when I created this thread. I already knew about both of the other hero suggestions, for the chariot hero and Narin, and I have read the majority of the posts on the Narin idea. This idea is separate, I did not say that NO worthy proposals had been offered, I said that nobody has suggested the Captain from the 3rd film yet, which is why I created this thread.

I will try to come up with some ideas that would fit in well with the abilities of the current Iron Hills hero roster without being duplicate or overlapping roles. I will again state however, that I am not as well versed in dwarven lore, my interests in Middle Earth lie with the Men of the West. So if somebody else wants to try and take a crack at coming up with some ability ideas specific to the Iron Hills Captain from the 3rd Hobbit movie, please feel free.
Arise! Arise, Riders of Theoden! Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter! Spear shall be shaken! Shield shall be splintered! A sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now! Ride now! Ride, ride to ruin, and the worlds ending! FORTH EORLINGAS!

Fine

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Re: New Iron Hills Hero
« Antwort #6 am: 9. Feb 2016, 10:04 »
in the form of the captain that shouts the quotes, such as "Tanar! Durin Nur!"

Afaik, he's actually saying "Tanár Durin-ûl" which translates to "Forth, Sons of Durin".

About the main idea of a new hero for Iron Hills, I agree with Melkor that it would be better to wait until version 4.3 arrives.
RPG:

Walküre

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Re: New Iron Hills Hero
« Antwort #7 am: 9. Feb 2016, 10:16 »
I'm afraid you have all misunderstood my intent when I created this thread. I already knew about both of the other hero suggestions, for the chariot hero and Narin, and I have read the majority of the posts on the Narin idea. This idea is separate, I did not say that NO worthy proposals had been offered, I said that nobody has suggested the Captain from the 3rd film yet, which is why I created this thread.

I will try to come up with some ideas that would fit in well with the abilities of the current Iron Hills hero roster without being duplicate or overlapping roles. I will again state however, that I am not as well versed in dwarven lore, my interests in Middle Earth lie with the Men of the West. So if somebody else wants to try and take a crack at coming up with some ability ideas specific to the Iron Hills Captain from the 3rd Hobbit movie, please feel free.


I know that this is theoretically a new proposal, but it also concerns the long-discussed 'new hero' issue in the Iron Hills faction (the background issue of all the other proposals as well).

That's why I wanted to say that the Captain concept you proposed, taking into consideration the current state of the faction, might not have very high chances of being implemented, in my opinion.
The Iron Hills basically need a new Scout Hero (even though the Ram Riders partially make up for this lack), and I would suggest that this could be regarded as the 'right path' to follow.
I don't know precisely the details of this not-already-developed suggestion, but I assume this Captain will be likely to be a Hero Supporter, or be characterised mainly by supporting abilities as his nature suggests.
Therefore, I think it's not necessary to focus on adding another supporting hero, while there could be other more suitable ideas, if one really wants to target exactly this 'new hero' issue.

But, as I wrote, these are only considerations of mine, having followed quite constantly these matters.
You are obviously free to continue and develop your suggestions; I just wanted to point out what could have been the most effective solution to these problematics  ;)
« Letzte Änderung: 9. Feb 2016, 10:38 von DieWalküre »

Linhir

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Re: New Iron Hills Hero
« Antwort #8 am: 18. Feb 2016, 11:56 »
So... maybe new Iron Hills scout could be Bofur (Son of Thorin Oakenshield's brother, not Bofur from the company).

http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Frerin

FG15

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Re: New Iron Hills Hero
« Antwort #9 am: 18. Feb 2016, 12:28 »
I doubt that isn't a fake.
In the article there is no real source at all and every mention of this topic on the internet is exactly a copy of this article (or the other way around).
Also, Frerin was only 40 years old at that time and so basically still a child. (Fili and Kili were about 80 at the time of the Hobbit, and Gimli was too young to come with them, because he was just 60). Also, the article mentions three sons, but only lists two of them. And it would be an unnecessary doubling of names.

Linhir

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Re: New Iron Hills Hero
« Antwort #10 am: 18. Feb 2016, 12:30 »
Propably your'e right. But that was worth a shot. Maybe someone here will recognize this and share a source.

LordDainIronfoot

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Re: New Iron Hills Hero
« Antwort #11 am: 18. Feb 2016, 12:49 »
He is mst probably fake ! And it is more safe to assume Thorin III was Lord of IHs when Dain become King! It does sound interesting as an idea though but still I am not so convinced!

This is too much of a fiction to me!
« Letzte Änderung: 18. Feb 2016, 12:53 von LordDainIronfoot »
"I will not stand down before any Elf,not least this Faithless Woodland Sprite,he wishesh nothing but ill upon my people...To Battle,to Battle Sons of Durin!!!..."

"You,think I give a dead dog about your threats you Pointy Ear Princess...Hear now lads,we are on...Let's give those bastards a good Hammering!!!..."

DainSonOfNàin

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Re: New Iron Hills Hero
« Antwort #12 am: 21. Feb 2016, 15:17 »
good mornig kryptik! yes, its maby late but its sunday..
i have to agree with the earlyer posts that it is kinda hard to find oute what abbilities we want added to the IH posible new heroes, knowing ther are big changes we havent tried yet and had the feeling of yet, but i will share what i woud love done ;)

Rework of Thorin III, like you planed http://www.moddb.com/mods/edain-mod/images/concept-art-thorin-iii-stonehelm#imagebox (fantastic model i have to add) give him a goath and make him the calvary hero, feel that the son of Dain shoud be more than a suport, buffer, guy and i bet thorind and hes smal grp of gards had goaths patroling the IH fighting off beasts and eastern raiders. :p and the buffer support role i feel that any one can do, let the big guys do the job real job and the "lesser ones" can do the administration stuff ;p

but a chariot, my god, having it in the game woud have been awesome, almost dont care how but having like max three of those (even 2 or 1), a hero or even my least favorit as a summon ^^     

sorry for the bad english.

LordDainIronfoot

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Re: New Iron Hills Hero
« Antwort #13 am: 22. Feb 2016, 08:09 »
The Change in Thorin III is most welcome,even though I am not so in favor of that Concept like whole! :-) And I have made a Suggestion for changing his Abilities to give him more accurate and purpose Role than a Mix of Hero Killer and Hero Supporter with Units Buff!

But I really don't think he needs a Ride,this should remain Unique Dain feature,plus adding more Mount Heroes to the Dwarves is not so lore accurate and especially in IHs where we already have the Goat Riders! And also giving him Riders Summon will just make way too much Cavalry for a Dwarven Faction,it will become like Iron Rohan with very strong infantry and a lot of Cavalry which will also ruin the Balance in Game !I am big fan if the Goat Riders but I think 3 Battalions are perfect for a Dwarven Faction,especially since Dwarves are not known for any kind of Cavalry like whole! :-)

About the War Chariots,well if you like them,you can check our Battlewagon Improvements Thread if you want to and if you like it you can give us your support or add few ideas! :-)

Greetings.
"I will not stand down before any Elf,not least this Faithless Woodland Sprite,he wishesh nothing but ill upon my people...To Battle,to Battle Sons of Durin!!!..."

"You,think I give a dead dog about your threats you Pointy Ear Princess...Hear now lads,we are on...Let's give those bastards a good Hammering!!!..."

DainSonOfNàin

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Re: New Iron Hills Hero
« Antwort #14 am: 22. Feb 2016, 18:15 »
hehe i have to admit that it was a little more hope and dreams in that consept suggestion than a solution :p
i just love the goaths and had a fantacy of having thorin III taking the the three grps of raiders from hes dady (maby the sum aswell, if not, it woud be just like dain giving him the keys to his car or somthing so np^^) and leading them with hees own goath mount and new goath suporting abillities, then dain is free to support hees troops, fast, anywhere on the map, wile thorin III can harrase with the goats at the same time elsewer and then at the same time 3 war charriots is going bananas on the battlefield mass slaying troops :D
hehe yeah that just might be a tiny bit too much... and not lore friendly at all, but it woud have been fun like hell if that woud have been posible to balance oute (somthing that to me, seems not posible atm)

anyways, the change of thorin can be anything, i feel that adding a new hero is dependent on someone else changing rolls and opening "new spots"(not that we ar laking that but i think u get my meaning).

If thorin III now is a mix of a hero killer and a buffer, cant u make him just a hero killer and let the mention capitan be the buffer guy, pluss some troop suport or somthing?
Drar is a mix of range hero and a buildig trasher dude, make him just the one and give the other to the new one.
i feel that somthing like this is whats needed to find the role for a new hero..

btw, is Murin and Drar receving any abillities changes that changes their rolls, or just cosmetic and/or smal changes that does not effect the rolls?

about the charriots: starting to read the 160+ rplys on that tread, thx for the tip =)