27. Apr 2024, 11:04 Hallo Gast.
Willkommen Gast. Bitte einloggen oder registrieren. Haben Sie Ihre Aktivierungs E-Mail übersehen?

Einloggen mit Benutzername, Passwort und Sitzungslänge. Hierbei werden gemäß Datenschutzerklärung Benutzername und Passwort verschlüsselt für die gewählte Dauer in einem Cookie abgelegt.


Select Boards:
 
Language:
 


Autor Thema: Mordor concept (New)  (Gelesen 26949 mal)

Spacetyrant93

  • Wanderer des Alten Waldes
  • *
  • Beiträge: 61
Re: Mordor concept - Dol Guldur and Minas Morgul
« Antwort #15 am: 16. Feb 2016, 15:30 »
While I would like to see some of the movie Trolls implemented, it wouldn't be the case to overpopulate Mordor even more.

As said before, I'd rather see Trolls implemented in the Misty Mountains, with the following criteria:

-Moria fornishing Cave Trolls; average price, highly versatile, both melee and long-rage, but weaker than Mordor's Mountain Troll. That's the classic and it should stay that way


-Gundabad giving off their own version of Attack Troll; high price, damage slightly higher than cave troll with tree trunk but very high armor, but as slow as Ents



-Goblintown gives access to Troll Catapults; the most mobile siege engine in the game, more ranged damage than Cave Troll with boulder, but far more vulnerable (the most squishy siege unit I'd say)



As stupid as some considers most of these creatures to be, it's actually very functional: those engines were built and supposed to move along tunnels, be they worm-made or Goblin-made, regardless of the Worm's concept being acceptable or not. And you simply cannot move a wheeled catapult in a tunnel..but if it has legs, then that's different. And it's operated by Goblins (Goblintown's specifically) whom are shown to be even slightly shorter than Dwarves. Even the Troll Ram, however stupid it may seem, made sense: a quick way to bring down a wall and get inside. Those armies were made up very fast, kind of like Isengard, but in an even more desperate rush, and with whatever could be found around.
I know that the main siege unit for the MM are supposed to be the Giants, but of those I was never convinced..

As for Trolls size, I'd say to stick to Cave Troll size. In the movie they might have looked bigger, but I believe that was more for the fact that they had Goblins on their backs and were facing mostly Dwarves. But even if they were bigger, I don't see the problem: many abominations did Sauron create, and these Trolls were even more twisted to give the feeling that he was really making out his armies with whatever he could take.

Sorry for the disgression, but I wanted to let this point known.

As for Dol Guldur/Minas Morgul functionality, it's actually all a matter of what you want to play. For exemple, in certain occasions you will need one of the two first. Against Elves, you might prefer Morgul Orcs, if anything for more durable arcers with flaming arrows, even if poison damage might very well counter Elven healing.
Against Dwarves, you need Dol Guldur for a simple reason: Khamul and his demolition band. In a siege, I find little more important than having Khamul around: you just need to park him outside enemy walls and watch them crumble. That said, Castellans are also very useful, spiders, on the other hand...

BUT, a summoning spell that calls help from Dol Guldur is fine for MM, so we can have the whole Hobbit feel.

Yeah, PJ and crew worked on a schedule that was not tight, but blade-thin, so i am quite content with what came out :) and honestly, if those are Moria Orcs, they could just be a different breed: technically Azog had taken Moria, wouldn't make little sense if some Gundabad Orcs moved there as well. They probably didn't dwell deep enough to meet the Balrog, as they still had normal-sized eyes and could not scale walls..but I disgress

Adrigabbro

  • Gesandter der Freien Völker
  • **
  • Beiträge: 392
Re: Mordor concept - Dol Guldur and Minas Morgul
« Antwort #16 am: 16. Feb 2016, 16:56 »
I don't want to be rude, but Mordor is conceptually and gameplay-wise close to perfect (the only """flaw""" I can see is the absence of Umbar in the faction). Why on earth would you want to change anything? The only changes Mordor need are balance changes.


"That still only counts as one!"

Spacetyrant93

  • Wanderer des Alten Waldes
  • *
  • Beiträge: 61
Re: Mordor concept - Dol Guldur and Minas Morgul
« Antwort #17 am: 16. Feb 2016, 16:58 »
I have to go with Abrigabbro here, Mordor's fine at the moment (except Umbar indeed)
All this up can very well be moved to Misty Mountains, really, it wouldn't hurt anybody and keep things balanced, without overpopulating Mordor, which is already seriously crowded.

Walküre

  • Edain Unterstützer
  • Hoher König von Gondor
  • ***
  • Beiträge: 4.706
Re: Mordor concept - Dol Guldur and Minas Morgul
« Antwort #18 am: 16. Feb 2016, 17:48 »

Azog, I sincerely agree with the two comments above, as I can't really think about any way Mordor could be changed/improved beside balance or minor elements.
Said that, you are still obviously free to express your own suggestions, unless an opposite statement of the Edain Team.

Just, two threads for a general and in development topic are too much, in my opinion.
I will merge everything with the previous thread, to avoid what could become an unnecessary fragmentation of ideas.

--- MERGED ---

The Witch-King of Angmar

  • Wanderer des Alten Waldes
  • *
  • Beiträge: 55
  • Fear The Iron Crown
Re: Mordor concept - Dol Guldur and Minas Morgul
« Antwort #19 am: 17. Feb 2016, 17:32 »
i see Mordor has very much taypes of units and it musnt get more so i am against giving Mordor Gundabad's armored trolls and  the siege trolls and dont forget the siege trolls have goblines on there backs so they must be added to MM not Mordor  :-| , and I see it really uncomfortable that Azog (The Defiler) is in MM Faction and his army in Mordor Faction , I think dul guldor must be removed from Mordor, Mordor really have so MUCH units and its the most easy Faction to win with.

Adrigabbro

  • Gesandter der Freien Völker
  • **
  • Beiträge: 392
Re: Mordor concept - Dol Guldur and Minas Morgul
« Antwort #20 am: 17. Feb 2016, 18:12 »
Since when is Dol Guldur """Azog's army""" ? Plus, Azog won't even be in the game.


"That still only counts as one!"

The Witch-King of Angmar

  • Wanderer des Alten Waldes
  • *
  • Beiträge: 55
  • Fear The Iron Crown
Re: Mordor concept - Dol Guldur and Minas Morgul
« Antwort #21 am: 17. Feb 2016, 18:34 »
Since when is Dol Guldur """Azog's army""" ? Plus, Azog won't even be in the game.

since when ? really? did you watch the movies adrigabbro ? becouse its clearly that i am talking about the 3rd one "BotFA" and not the books as the edain team is using BotFA Azog's Soldiers's look in the game , and you can see in my comment this "(The Defiler)"right?

Walküre

  • Edain Unterstützer
  • Hoher König von Gondor
  • ***
  • Beiträge: 4.706
Re: Mordor concept - Dol Guldur and Minas Morgul
« Antwort #22 am: 17. Feb 2016, 18:53 »
Gentlemen, there is no need of getting angry or something closed to this feeling when you discuss about anything related to this forum.
Resentment is simply not constructive and counterproductive.
I really believe that things can most of the times be explained in fair terms  :)

Witch-king of Angmar, what does 'removing Dol Guldur from Mordor' exactly mean?
That fortress is a direct property/dominion of Sauron; initially as his shelter, later as Mordor's outpost in Mirkwood.
« Letzte Änderung: 17. Feb 2016, 18:56 von DieWalküre »

Elendils Cousin 3. Grades

  • Administrator
  • Ringträger
  • *****
  • Beiträge: 5.697
  • German, Motherfucker! Do you speak it?
Re: Mordor concept - Dol Guldur and Minas Morgul
« Antwort #23 am: 17. Feb 2016, 18:55 »
They used the design from the movie, yes, but that's it. The team usually sticks to the books, NOT the movies, when they contradict each other, as it is the case here. Dol Guldur during the War Of The Ring is a base of Sauron's, so it belongs to Mordor.

The Witch-King of Angmar

  • Wanderer des Alten Waldes
  • *
  • Beiträge: 55
  • Fear The Iron Crown
Re: Mordor concept - Dol Guldur and Minas Morgul
« Antwort #24 am: 17. Feb 2016, 19:13 »
They used the design from the movie, yes, but that's it. The team usually sticks to the books, NOT the movies, when they contradict each other, as it is the case here. Dol Guldur during the War Of The Ring is a base of Sauron's, so it belongs to Mordor.

ofc dul guldor blongs to Mordor , I am talking about the army that came from MM to dul guldor to make the Alliance with the necromancer then attacked the mountains ofc this info is only in the movies and its not in the book i know edain team stick to the book but  they are using the design of the soldiers  that what make it uncomfortable for me (my opinion).

Witch-king of Angmar, what does 'removing Dol Guldur from Mordor' exactly mean?
That fortress is a direct property/dominion of Sauron; initially as his shelter, later as Mordor's outpost in Mirkwood.

you are right , i agree with this ,  dul guldor and all the spider ,castillians(right word?) and khamul  must stay in mordor but i think they must change the design of the soldiers to a new one , and get the current design to MM to join The defiler .

Fredius

  • Edain Betatesting
  • Galadhrim
  • ***
  • Beiträge: 712
  • It's good to be evil
Re: Mordor concept - Dol Guldur and Minas Morgul
« Antwort #25 am: 17. Feb 2016, 19:28 »
No. The armor those orcs are wearing are forged in Dol Guldur. Therefore it doesnt matter who wears that armor, be it orc from Gundabad or Orc from Mordor, that is Dol Guldurs armor.

Its Castellans btw, Castillians are a former spanish kingdom in the middle ages :P.

Hamanathnath

  • Gefährte der Gemeinschaft
  • **
  • Beiträge: 414
Re: Mordor concept - Dol Guldur and Minas Morgul
« Antwort #26 am: 17. Feb 2016, 19:29 »
you are right , i agree with this ,  dul guldor and all the spider ,castillians(right word?) and khamul  must stay in mordor but i think they must change the design of the soldiers to a new one , and get the current design to MM to join The defiler .
Im completely fine with the design of the Dol Guldur orcs right now.  I don't exactly get why you want them to change to something different.  I think it would be cool to have the Dol Guldur orcs be a summon for the Defiler or maybe a Spellbook power for the MM, but they shouldn't be the basic infantry for MM. 

The Witch-King of Angmar

  • Wanderer des Alten Waldes
  • *
  • Beiträge: 55
  • Fear The Iron Crown
Re: Mordor concept - Dol Guldur and Minas Morgul
« Antwort #27 am: 17. Feb 2016, 19:43 »

Its Castellans btw, Castillians are a former spanish kingdom in the middle ages :P.
lol

Im completely fine with the design of the Dol Guldur orcs right now.  I don't exactly get why you want them to change to something different.  I think it would be cool to have the Dol Guldur orcs be a summon for the Defiler or maybe a Spellbook power for the MM, but they shouldn't be the basic infantry for MM. 

yea maybe not a basic infantry , it should be a spellbook or something like that , the problem is when i play as Mordor i see them not fitting in my army , some troops from BotFA movie are joining morgul orcs , Grond , fellBeasts etc..., its really weird .

Fine

  • RPG Team
  • Wächter der Veste
  • ***
  • Beiträge: 2.143
  • Ich hab da ein ganz mieses Gefühl bei der Sache...
Re: Mordor concept - Dol Guldur and Minas Morgul
« Antwort #28 am: 17. Feb 2016, 19:57 »
Mordor has so many different types of orcs (and other units) to offer. If you are uncomfortable with the Dol Guldur orcs, simply don't use them.
RPG:

Melkor Bauglir

  • Held von Helms Klamm
  • ***
  • Beiträge: 1.203
Re: Mordor concept - Dol Guldur and Minas Morgul
« Antwort #29 am: 17. Feb 2016, 20:15 »
Zitat
Plus, Azog won't even be in the game.
Just to clear this point up: Yes, the Defiler is of course basically the Hobbit Azog. However, due to him not being alive during the Hobbit storyline, Edain has decided to only name him the Defiler, so he is neither really Azog nor the leader of the Misty Mountains (why Tolkien, why, do both Minas Morgul and Misty Mountains have the abbreviation "MM" in english? [uglybunti]). The Defiler is simply Misty Mountains hero killer and kept with Gundabad's design (meaning the orc design from the first Hobbit movie). It's kind of a mess because it makes for a big confusion concerning DG and Misty Mountains, but that's the Edain canon.
So basically, the orc army in BotFA uses Mordor's DG design (eventhough those are orcs from the Misty Mountains as Mordor / Sauron had no influence over the BotFA), Bolg is the leader of the orcs being the uniter during the BotFA, Azog is only included by his looks (and not his battle armor, because that would make him the commander he is not), but named "The Defiler" (making Bolg the only orc with a true name which is intentional) and this is basically the point where I lost track. xD
And I rightfully blame PJ for this eventhough I won't go in detail about this...

And the DG orcs shouldn't be at all included for the Misty Mountains because at no point in history DG really supported them. Therefore there isn't the slightest connection. Also I don't think this design is even fitting for the Misty Mountains because Edain has interpreted as a very wild faction without an organized / standardized army. Therefore this industrial armor is completely inept for the Misty Mountains.
Also, isn't that one of the greatest things about Mordor? That you actually control evil from all over Middle-Earth, for Mordor being the true hatchery of evil by the time of the WotR? Personally this is a reason why I like the DG-armor for Mordor because of it being different. And DG is one of the places you can actually expand creatively (see castellans) because it isn't really shown in the movie.


Greetings
Melkor Bauglir

PS: BTW, Wikipedia says "castellan" (or at least the german "Kastellan", the team used) is the overseer of an estate.