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Mordor concept (New)

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Spacetyrant93:
While I would like to see some of the movie Trolls implemented, it wouldn't be the case to overpopulate Mordor even more.

As said before, I'd rather see Trolls implemented in the Misty Mountains, with the following criteria:

-Moria fornishing Cave Trolls; average price, highly versatile, both melee and long-rage, but weaker than Mordor's Mountain Troll. That's the classic and it should stay that way


-Gundabad giving off their own version of Attack Troll; high price, damage slightly higher than cave troll with tree trunk but very high armor, but as slow as Ents



-Goblintown gives access to Troll Catapults; the most mobile siege engine in the game, more ranged damage than Cave Troll with boulder, but far more vulnerable (the most squishy siege unit I'd say)



As stupid as some considers most of these creatures to be, it's actually very functional: those engines were built and supposed to move along tunnels, be they worm-made or Goblin-made, regardless of the Worm's concept being acceptable or not. And you simply cannot move a wheeled catapult in a tunnel..but if it has legs, then that's different. And it's operated by Goblins (Goblintown's specifically) whom are shown to be even slightly shorter than Dwarves. Even the Troll Ram, however stupid it may seem, made sense: a quick way to bring down a wall and get inside. Those armies were made up very fast, kind of like Isengard, but in an even more desperate rush, and with whatever could be found around.
I know that the main siege unit for the MM are supposed to be the Giants, but of those I was never convinced..

As for Trolls size, I'd say to stick to Cave Troll size. In the movie they might have looked bigger, but I believe that was more for the fact that they had Goblins on their backs and were facing mostly Dwarves. But even if they were bigger, I don't see the problem: many abominations did Sauron create, and these Trolls were even more twisted to give the feeling that he was really making out his armies with whatever he could take.

Sorry for the disgression, but I wanted to let this point known.

As for Dol Guldur/Minas Morgul functionality, it's actually all a matter of what you want to play. For exemple, in certain occasions you will need one of the two first. Against Elves, you might prefer Morgul Orcs, if anything for more durable arcers with flaming arrows, even if poison damage might very well counter Elven healing.
Against Dwarves, you need Dol Guldur for a simple reason: Khamul and his demolition band. In a siege, I find little more important than having Khamul around: you just need to park him outside enemy walls and watch them crumble. That said, Castellans are also very useful, spiders, on the other hand...

BUT, a summoning spell that calls help from Dol Guldur is fine for MM, so we can have the whole Hobbit feel.

Yeah, PJ and crew worked on a schedule that was not tight, but blade-thin, so i am quite content with what came out :) and honestly, if those are Moria Orcs, they could just be a different breed: technically Azog had taken Moria, wouldn't make little sense if some Gundabad Orcs moved there as well. They probably didn't dwell deep enough to meet the Balrog, as they still had normal-sized eyes and could not scale walls..but I disgress

Adrigabbro:
I don't want to be rude, but Mordor is conceptually and gameplay-wise close to perfect (the only """flaw""" I can see is the absence of Umbar in the faction). Why on earth would you want to change anything? The only changes Mordor need are balance changes.

Spacetyrant93:
I have to go with Abrigabbro here, Mordor's fine at the moment (except Umbar indeed)
All this up can very well be moved to Misty Mountains, really, it wouldn't hurt anybody and keep things balanced, without overpopulating Mordor, which is already seriously crowded.

Walküre:

--- Zitat von: Azog The Defiler am 16. Feb 2016, 16:49 ---Okay so i have recieved a lot of constructive feedback on my previous concept. I even decided to change the concept a lot to fit the feedback. So thanks for the feedback, you all had lots of good points on the matter!:)

But now i decided to make a plan B, an idea to integrate the material from my previous thread without having two subfactions and without interfering with the gameplay Mordor has to offer at the moment.
But now back to the concept.

Mordor concept, plan B

So here i have described what would change, its mostly visual effects but also new upgrades for units, improving them and i think this would add just so much more to the gameplay of mordor.


Citadel
Gothmog is removed from the citadel and instead recruited from the Minas Morgul fortress.

Troll cave
The mountain trolls can now choose between two armor upgrades:
1. The one they have now, which offers mace, sword, hammer
-this one would serve you as a shock troop, for when you wan to storm a breached gate, take down strong single targets or destroy buildings.
2. The armor they have in the hobbit, this one would only offer them the wooden mace.
-this is for when you use them in open battle. this armor is a lot heavier so they are much more resistant, but you lose the ability to specialize them.

Orc Pit
When overseers are placed behind your troops they change look.
-Behind regular orc troops they look the same
-Behind Minas Morgul orcs they look like Minas Morgul orcs
-Behind Dol Guldur orcs they look like the guy in front of Azogs army as they marched


Minas Morgul
-Gothmog is now recruited from Minas Morgul


Dol Guldur
-The Defiler is now a leader hero in Dol Guldur
-Dol Guldur orcs get a visual rework
-Mainly concerning, helmets, weapons and armor on their backs
-And new animation instead of the regular orc animation

The Defiler
-level 2 Mount up
-level 4 Leadership (passive)
-level 6 "General of Sauron" (passive) - gives The Defiler the armor and weapons he deserves, he gains alot more armor and damage, and his auto attacks knock down enemies in a small area in front of him (this is the armor he wore in the movie and weapons)
-level 8 "Commander of legions" The Defiler can give units in a medium sized area experience
-level 10 "Come forth my armies" All orcs get a large increase in movement speed and damage as The Defilers battle horns are used

-And just to make it clear, The Defiler role isnt removed from MM, its only the name and the design.
Heres another design the role could have : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqASlj09NEQ  And he could be renamed Gundabad wargchieftain nameless like the others.


Images and videos:

Dol Guldur trolls:
http://r58.imgup.net/Trolls9240.png
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHHrPA80j7E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aTPiShcm78 1:38 This is the guy with the short swords on each hand i was talking about.

Dol Guldur orcs:
http://media.moddb.com/images/members/1/874/873509/ORC13.jpg The one in the front could be a nice design for the banner carrier
https://www.herr-der-ringe-film.de/v3/media/galerie/hobbit001/dos_trailer2/dos39-cb210126.jpg
I like the design on the armor on their backs in this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THu4gwA2GQA at 0:25 Also that is a great war chant for the orcs!

Come forth my armies:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GW-IgJHM3cY  Also in this clip we can see the orcs have two different kinds of shields, i think the swordsman troop should have both shields at random.



And some ideas that were left out that i liked, but that could be for Miasty Mountains instead:
-Were worms
-Siege trolls (could also be for Mordor in some way)
-Troll catapults, the one Spacetyrant posted, actually look pretty cool


And one more thing, it would be really cool to include spells in each fortress. In both the hobbit and lotr each fortress had spells typical for each fortress.
-Dol Guldur had the spell of concealment, this would be pretty cool to have in the game, the enemy has no visual on a medium sized area around the fortress so you can prepare an army and unsuspected attacks from there.
-Minas Morgul had the green beam going into the sky, it was a form of communication. At the same time there was a red beam in Mordor. It was basically Sauron asking the Witchking "are you ready?" and the with king replying "yes" and then the army started marching
But this could be some kind of boost for the orcs, so they have increased movement speed for a long time, to symbolize that they have just been sent out to march for war.

--- Ende Zitat ---

Azog, I sincerely agree with the two comments above, as I can't really think about any way Mordor could be changed/improved beside balance or minor elements.
Said that, you are still obviously free to express your own suggestions, unless an opposite statement of the Edain Team.

Just, two threads for a general and in development topic are too much, in my opinion.
I will merge everything with the previous thread, to avoid what could become an unnecessary fragmentation of ideas.

--- MERGED ---

The Witch-King of Angmar:
i see Mordor has very much taypes of units and it musnt get more so i am against giving Mordor Gundabad's armored trolls and  the siege trolls and dont forget the siege trolls have goblines on there backs so they must be added to MM not Mordor  :-| , and I see it really uncomfortable that Azog (The Defiler) is in MM Faction and his army in Mordor Faction , I think dul guldor must be removed from Mordor, Mordor really have so MUCH units and its the most easy Faction to win with.

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