Orc overseers

[Walküre]

I would rather split Mordor into two and have 2 subfactions which makes sense, than having units like Gundabad orcs with the goblins. The goblins can have their entire faction but I don't like the idea of having Azog and Gundabad orcs with them.

What do you mean with 'splitting' Mordor in two subfactions? Mordor already has two subfactions available via the outposts: Minas Morgul and Dol Guldur. I strongly believe that this subfaction system, one of the main prerogatives of the Edain Mod 4.0, is really the best solution they could have come up with, enabling to add many different elements from both the trilogies in the simple, rational and fixed structure of BFME1.

If you meant adding Azog and Bolg to Mordor, as the subfaction of Gundabad, this is not possible. The Edain Team has rejected multiple times similar proposals in this forum. Also, thinking about the gameplay and the lore, Mordor would have too much heroes (as if it didn't have enough of them already) and, as Fredius wrote, this would contradict the interpretation (from the pure lore) that both Mordor and the Misty Mountains follow and will follow in the Edain Mod. And, just another implication, Azog was dead during the War of the Ring (the timeline of the faction of Mordor) and he won't be present in the Misty Mountains anyway (he is replaced by the more 'neutral' Defiler); thus, Azog in Mordor could also create a conflict among different timelines.

[Fredius]

The models of the Dol Guldur orcs look a bit outdated, but that's not a priority at the moment.

How does it not make sense? Dol Guldur and Morgul are both fortresses that are in direct control of Sauron, get their orders directly from Sauron, and are being led by the two most powerfull commanders of Sauron (Khamul for Dol Guldur and the Witch-King for Minas Morgul). As a player you are not obligated to have them both at the same time during a match, the mod gives you a choice to focus on one of the two realms.

It's not even out of context if both forces fight together. Sauron's original plan was to use Dol guldur to fight the kingdoms in the North, and the forces of Morgul to fight the kingdoms in the South. One way or another, the victor of one of those regions would join up with the forces who are still fighting, and ultimately crush the forces of Good. So yes it does make sense.

And as for the Goblins: the faction is not called "Goblins", it's called "Misty Mountains", and it's an alliance of orcs from Moria, Goblin-town and Gundabad, because those are the three major powers of the Forces of Evil in that region. Azog was originally a Moria Orc, but was killed in the Battle of Azanulbizar. Moria was retaken by the Dwarves, and his son, Bolg, became the king of Gundabad. Do I have to say more? So yes it makes totally sense that Gundabad belongs to the Misty Mountains faction.

And another thing, the hero in the Misty Mountains faction is not Azog, but is called "the Defiler". The Defiler is not Azog, but takes only his design and title from the movie. So in any case the orc "Azog" was never in the mod anyway.

Look I understand that you guys are very inspired by the movie, because I am too, but the movies are not best source of lore to use for the Edain mod..

EDIT: Sorry Walk it seems you posted before me .

[Walküre]

Never mind, Fredius, you have been way more detailed. The forces of the Evil are definitely a concern of yours, and I don't generally like corrupting my nature with evil matters 

[Azog The Defiler]

For me a visual update and the trolls idea, different armor for different weapon idea would be enough, since that would support the Dol Guldur army more.

My main problem is just that the faction only supports the Minas Morgul army. All the catapults, trolls, heroes, units etc. are only material from lotr minas tirith battle, even the spellbook.
There is almost nothing supporting the Dol Guldur part, only dol guldur that gives you orcs and the necromancer in his shadow form. Which makes these units feel a little "out" as you play as Mordor and makes it less fun.
Also when i was battling Iron Hills with my Guldur orcs, as i zoomed, the Dwarves look exactly like in the movie (completely epic), and the Dol Guldur orcs, well.. So i think they almost deserve a visual to give the dwarves of the iron hills a proper match!
And since the defiler isnt Azog he could very well be a badass leader hero for The Dol Guldur orcs

But my three main ideas for improvements
Visual rework
Troll armor the idea i had
and The Defiler recruited from Guldur and Gothmog from Morgul

[Fredius]

Look how about this: I can already guarantee you that the Defiler won't be placed into Dol Guldur, since Mordor has already a lot of heroes, and the team won't change the whole gameplay of the faction just to add that single hero. What I can do for you guys, however, is teach you how to transfer him via code from the Misty Mountains to Mordor, for personal use. It's very simple, but it has to wait untill the faction is released .

Also don't forget that in your ideas list the banner carrier should wear the centurion helmet  that Azogs officer wore .

[Morgul Orc]

I agree with the visual idea. And I have to say yes, Dol Guldur orcs should have a little change in the looks of their armor and helmets, but they now look much better than the Morgul orcs. Dol Guldur orcs have at least 5 helmets variation, while Morgul orcs have only 2 which make them look like clones. I already posted a topic about it that was locked, it's in the General discussion called "Adding or changing new textures to units and buildings".

Fredius, I like what you said about the code transfer, but how would that work? Will the Defiler be a normal hero or will he be one in CAH?

And with the visual changes, how do you add the Dol Guldur trolls? This remains a question.

[Azog The Defiler]

That would be completely awesome!:D
And yes in my Guldur orcs rework post i mention that i think the banner carrier should wear the centurion helmet;D

[Fredius]

No not CAH; the Defiler is at the moment part of the Misty Mountains faction and can be recruited in the citadel of the camp. I will teach you how to remove him from the Misty Mountains faction, and add him to the Mordor faction (particularly only be buildable in the Dol Guldur fortress, if you want).

I will PM you guys once the faction is released.

Also about the trolls; you should check out Azogs older thread: https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,32808.0.html

[Morgul Orc]

Hmmm.. seems like a great idea and I agree that this will make trolls less complicated, but fun and it's good to have a variety of trolls. And yes I think Molluk should be removed as many people rarely use him.

All we need now is the visual changed of both Morgul orcs and Dol Guldur orcs. And I have to say that the best cheap orcs I have ever seen in a mod are edain's they look exactly like some of the faces seen in the movies.

Anyhow I am now completely satisfied about this idea