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Autor Thema: Edain Demo 4.3: General Feedback  (Gelesen 5411 mal)

Lord of Mordor

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Edain Demo 4.3: General Feedback
« am: 2. Apr 2016, 21:43 »
What do you like about the new Edain version 4.3? What could we improve? Let us know here!
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The_Necromancer0

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Re: Edain Demo 4.3: General Feedback
« Antwort #1 am: 2. Apr 2016, 22:08 »
Other then that the Mordor nerf is looking quite good, I haven't played it yet but it feels as though that'll help  xD
« Letzte Änderung: 3. Apr 2016, 11:23 von Ealendril »
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Questions on the Mod? Visit the Official Wiki: http://edain.wikia.com/

Adrigabbro

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Re: Edain Demo 4.3: General Feedback
« Antwort #2 am: 5. Apr 2016, 16:57 »
Time for me to write down my feedback!

At first, I'd just like to make two general comments:
- As I haven't played enough yet, I'll just write everything I want to say in this thread, even though it also deals with Angmar and the new dwarves. It's much clearer and easier for me to do so.
- Congratulations for this new update, it is wonderful! The new shellmap, the new musics, the atmoshpere ... 4.3 was definitely worth the waiting, you guys did an awesome job. :) I won't repeat a thousand times that Edain mod is a blessing (otherwise it would be boring to read, gotta admit it ^^) but I definitely think so.

I'm gonna start with Angmar. The faction is great, really fun to play and blends very well in the atmosphere and in Tolkien lore. There are so many things to do with them (perhaps too much? I'm thinking about Helegwen, was she really necessary?).
However, I haven't played competitively yet, but they look brutally overpowered. I've read Haman's post in the Angmar balance topic, and I 300% agree with him. Also, just a side note, Angmar is supposed to have a poor economy but remains strong by crippling the enemy one. I feel like their economy is a little bit too good ; for instance tribute carts give a bit too much money. Still, Angmar is very well done and much better than in 3.8.

Moving on to the Dwarves overhaul. That's near to flawless! I'm amazed by the quality of your work. Gotta appreciate the differences between 4.1 and 4.3. :D I hope that you guys are still willing to improve Thorin Stonehelm, but don't worry I'm ready to wait. Side note: I beg you, get rid of Greed! Or consider improving it. Right now it is useless or, at the very best, anticlimactic. Congratulations and thank you, once again, for this outstanding dwarven rework.

Now, let's talk about balance changes! (which is the main point of my comment, and why I'm writing it in this topic)
  • General
Very cool changes, they are all very welcome. Special mention to the reduced attack range of summoned towers: that's a change I've never thought of but I definitely appreciate it.
One comment: ~> Making siege weapons more vulnerable is nice, but it won't stop rams from taking isolated outposts or camps. I don't know if this is possible, but have you considered making rams a lot weaker to arrows when there are no troops nearby?
  • Gondor
I think that's not the most appropriate nerf to Gondor cavalry. I believe the problem is not that they come out too soon, but rather that their harrassment potential, and their potential in general, is too strong, especially with upgrades. I'm a little disappointed that you didn't weaken their damage and armor. Right now pretty much all Gondor players choose cavalry over archers to support their infantry, and I'm not sure how this change is gonna help.
  • Rohan
I won't comment on Rohan since I haven't played with them yet because of the Muster Camp bug.
  • Dwarves
Glad you finally improved battlewagons! Other than that, as I've said previously, the three new dwarven realms seem pretty balanced (Iron Hills might be a little too strong though, especially Rams and Narin) and SO cool! Also, new "Final stand" is great and much more balanced than the previous one. Last but not least, limiting the veterans to 3 was the very right move to do.
  • Lorien
Great changes on Beornings, Ents, Tauriel, Haldir, Quarters and the chanters. However the nerf to Rumil and Orophin seems a little too harsh in my opinion. I would have either increased their cost or reduced their damage, but not both.
Concerning Mirkwood, I love the new abilities for Palace Guards and especially Elkriders (they now have their own purpose inside the faction as anti cavalry and that is GREAT). I'm a little disappointed though by the Caras-Galadhon Guardians who still have only one real ability and no "big ability" available at higher levels. Also, I really liked the former passive ability for Mirkwood regular archers. I know that this ability is now available with Angmar Carn Dum archers, but I see it more fiiting in Mirkwood. I'd, personnally, like to swap both abilities and give Crn Dum archers the slow.
  • Mordor
Great great great great changes! The best one is undoubtedly the price reduction that no longer applies to Black Uruk. To wrap things up, I'm hoping that you guys will change a bit Annatar, as many players have rightfully complained about him.
  • Isengard
Nice changes, but I'm a little bit disappointed to see no buff for wargs. I'm not a great Isengard player, but I have yet to see a Isengard play where wargs make an actual difference.
[/list]

I'm done nitpicking! (although I believe some of my points are not nitpicks ^^) Once again, thanks and bravo for this update. It's truely amazing. I'm now looking forward to 4.3.1 to have the few bugs fixed, just as usual of course. Read my comment as positive criticism and balance concerns, and not as something negative. :)


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Andras

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Re: Edain Demo 4.3: General Feedback
« Antwort #3 am: 7. Apr 2016, 10:06 »
Dear Edain Mod Team,

Firstly, I would like to thank you for the great work you have put into the mod and for the attention you have paid to detail all the way. I am writing this message to provide some feedback on the mod version 4.3 and on the balance issues of some of the races and features.

1) Create-a-Heroes

The changes in the statistics are welcome and it offers a new experience for testing the new heroes out and to consider new builds, seeing as they can die really quick to other heroes.

2) Gameplay

So far, the gameplay has been really great. Angmar is providing a good challenge and has strong units to fight against. However, I am not sure if it is just me playing bad or not, but I am finding it difficult to keep pace against them with the dwarves of Ered Luin (I had a multiplayer against a Mordr + Angmar with my brother, and we simply got rushed down as I kept loosing the battles and heroes against Angmar). I think this may have also been reported already, but Rohan's changes are absolutely great (finally I can fight with more than just drafted peasants), but the Exile Camp/King's camp is bugged and it produces resources at a ridiculously fast rate (you may have missed a 0 somewhere in its code I think).

I thank you for your time and for the work you carry out.

Hamanathnath

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Re: Edain Demo 4.3: General Feedback
« Antwort #4 am: 13. Apr 2016, 14:14 »
I'm guessing this is the place to post this, but I noticed that the Mission: Defend the Shire is now properly working.  Would just like to give some feedback on that.

I really enjoy the map.  It has such a unique setup that, while it takes some time to get used to, is very enjoyable and well thought out.  I've only used the Dwarves so far, but the way the different realms are used in this map is pretty much perfect. 

Now for some suggestions :) (Well, like 1 suggestion):

- I find it very hard to deal with Archer waves as the Dwarves, due to them not having any cavalry (at least I haven't seen any yet, maybe they are really late game).  If they haven't been added yet, I would like to see Ram Riders included so the Dwarves have at least some cavalry, because both Gondor and Rohan have access to very powerful cavalry. 

Other then that, I am really enjoying this map, and hope Lothlorien is also playable eventually as well. :)

-




FG15

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Re: Edain Demo 4.3: General Feedback
« Antwort #5 am: 13. Apr 2016, 14:37 »
Thank  you.

It is intended that the dwarves have no cavalry, because they have really strong infantry. To deal with archers I would suggest using axe throwers, who one hit archers, or unburnt. If it's needed, I can also speed up the unburnt a bit.

Loren is already in work, Rivendell is nearly finished and also a men of Rhovanion faction is planned, but there does not exist a concept yet.

Hamanathnath

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Re: Edain Demo 4.3: General Feedback
« Antwort #6 am: 13. Apr 2016, 15:08 »
Ok I'll try that.  I will admit, the Dwarves do have very high stats for their units.  I haven't been able to use the Unburnt too much yet, I've generally gone for Arkenguard and Ironbreakers.

Good to see Lothlorien and Rivendell will be added, and I'm also very curious about the Men of Rhovanion (which I'd assume is mostly made of Men of Dale/Lake-Town).  I also really look forward to trying Rohan and Gondor later.

Hamanathnath

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Re: Edain Demo 4.3: General Feedback
« Antwort #7 am: 26. Apr 2016, 19:41 »
Got a suggestion for Mission: Defend the Shire.  :)

I would like to see Gondor Banner Carriers to have the option to upgrade into Captains (The Banner Carrier Upgrade from Denethor).  Right now, because Banner Carriers can not be upgraded, there isn't really a reason to get more then 1 Banner Carrier per match, maybe buying a backup just in case you lose him early in a round.  I think that making Captains an option would make them more oftenly bought, depending on the Ability of the Captain of course.

Hamanathnath

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Re: Edain Demo 4.3: General Feedback
« Antwort #8 am: 28. Apr 2016, 15:00 »
Hopefully I'm not breaking any rules if I post here again.  I know that waiting 24 hours nullifies the rule about double posting, but its a bit odd to have 3 posts in a row.  Tell me if it's too much and I'll remove this post and edit the last one, but this post should be rather long.

Anyways, time to talk about Mission: Defend the Shire again :)

There is no better way to put this.  Playing as Rohan on this Map makes it ridiculously easy.  They far outclass both Gondor and Dwarves to the point where it isn't even fair.  Rohan is strong at every stage of the game. 

The Main Reason why this is the case is because of the Marshalls.  And when I say the Marshalls, I mean just Erkenbrand, because right now, he is just better then the other Marhsalls because of how strong the troops he summons are.  Erkenbrand's stats are about even with the stats of a Khazad-Dum Veteran.  And that is a big problem because first, he costs a lot less (100+70+150=320 for Erkenbrand, 50+120+200=370 for Veterans, assuming you go the shortest route for them), and second, he summons very good units.  Once you get Erkenbrand, which you can do before even fighting Gothmog quite effectively, you basically won the game. 

The unit composition I use for Rohan is this:  6 Rohan Captains, upgrading 5 of the to Erkenbrand, and leaving 1 Un-upgraded, 3 Royal Guard, and the Rest Peasants.  Once I have the Money to upgrade all my peasants into Wardens of Meduseld, and eventually Spearthrowers, I get my last Erkenbrand.  At that point, My command point limit has been reached.  The reason I got for so many Peasants is because of their low Command Point Cost, making them more effective then More Captains or Rohirrim becuase of their numbers, and because of the Rohan Captain's Draft, Peasants, who cost 15, are just as good as Gondor Soldiers, who cost 30.  I only need 3 Royal Guard to take care of my cavalry needs, so spamming peasants is just more effective.

During the time where I'm getting this Army, I'm getting loads of Endless Pain.  And when I say loads, I legitimately mean loads.  Because of how Cost effective Rohan is, I can get a lot more Endless Pain then Gondor or Dwarves.  And once you hit your Command Point limit, all you can do is buy Endless Pain.  I am not exaggerating when I say this, but I got to +2000 resource bonus per round the last time I played Rohan, at which point I can't even keep up with how many Endless Pains I could buy, summoning units for a higher bonus, and upgrading my own troops.  I could have just bought like 5 Fellbeasts and ended the match, but I wanted to see how far we could get, so I kept making Black Uruks for him to kill.  The amount of Souls I was getting was crazy by the end of the game. 

And the last thing, which is pretty small of a problem, but Rohan is the only faction who can actually kill the Balrog, because Spearthrowers Deal massive amount of Damage to him.  I don't think Spearthrowers are too strong in general, but their Damage against the Balrog is a bit high, but maybe just improving the other factions chances against it would be smarter.

And that's it.  I still find the map very fun with Rohan, but they are much better then both Gondor and Dwarves.

Andras

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Re: Edain Demo 4.3: General Feedback
« Antwort #9 am: 29. Apr 2016, 00:33 »
Hello Edain team,

I am writing this message to provide some more information regarding potential bugs or errors within the game.

Playing against AI, I have noticed that there are times when, playing as dwarves, rohan or gondor, there seems to be a bug which is causing all of my fortress expansions to upgrade automatically with towers, for free. This seems to happen particularly when I am up against an Angmar or Rohan AI. I think the error consists that they are upgrading my fortress themselves, although I am really not sure how to check for this. I am not sure if the problem is more widespread, such as applying to any fortress-building faction (angmar, gondor/arnor, rohan, dwarves). I do not know if this occurs with evil/lothlorien forts as well.

Lastly, I have noticed that a particular map, Mount Gram, is not functioning. Can it not be played in a normal skirmish, or does it have to be in a special context? I apologies if the question is "noobish".

THank you for your consideration and especially for the wonderful mod you have created.

Walküre

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Re: Edain Demo 4.3: General Feedback
« Antwort #10 am: 29. Apr 2016, 01:02 »
If you have bugs to report, Andras, you can do it in the Bug Reports section, in which you can choose to report bugs according to their specificity (regarding specific factions or maps).

Andras

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Re: Edain Demo 4.3: General Feedback
« Antwort #11 am: 29. Apr 2016, 12:31 »
Oops, sorry.

Hamanathnath

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Re: Edain Demo 4.3: General Feedback
« Antwort #12 am: 18. Mai 2016, 18:36 »
Would just like to give some feedback to the latest faction added to Mission: Defend the Shire, Lothlorien.

Overall, I really enjoy playing as Lothlorien.  Their use of archers is very appealing, and while I can say they have the easiest time later in the game, their early game can be quite challenging. They have a very unique way of working around a very limited number of pike and Mounted units.

Though I do have some feedback in terms of Balancing.

The Healers are balanced in terms of their healing power on their allies, but how much they heal themselves is a bit Overpowered.  Many units, even Attack Trolls, can't do enough damage to kill the healer.  Running around in Circles with your healer while your archers do the damage is an effective strategy..... And also not a strategy that I think is intended :P. So lowering the amount of healing power on themselves would makes them more balanced. 

Guardians of the Path and Elk Riders don't seem to be worth buying.  Their abilities just don't seem to be worth their price, and I would rather just go for Galadhrim and CG Guardians.  They should be made just a little better.

And CG Guardians deal a bit too much damage to Heroes in my opinion.  I know that's their purpose, but you can get a lot of them, and they make the Final Few waves a bit too easy compared to the other factions(besides the last wave). 

Also, I'm not sure if this is a bug, but archers, most notably CG Guardians, seem to randomly have trouble getting their shots to land on Orc Overseers.  Do they have something on them that makes Archers miss them?

Anyways, that's it for now.  Still really enjoying the map :)