[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] Angmar Suggestions

Angmar Balance Discussion

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Lord of Mordor:
In this thread, you can discuss balancing issues with the Angmar faction. If you feel a balance topic is so big it deserves its own thread, you're free to create one, but for smaller points this thread might be useful.

Hamanathnath:
Good day :)

Now I know it says if the balance topic is big, making a thread is an option, but this post is really about Angmar balance in general, and not one specific unit or ability so I think it should go in this thread. 

So in my opinion, Angmar is a bit overpowered in this version of Edain.  Now there are a lot of reasons for this, but I'm still fairly new to the faction and how exactly to play it, because of how diverse it is.  But my first reason is fairly obvious. 

The Heroes:  This is the most powerful part of Angmar in my opinion.  Credit to the Edain Team here, all of these heroes are very well made, and have very good abilities.  But the problem is....... They are ALL very well made, and have very good abilities. And there is 9 of them.  It's like the Fellowship of the Iron Crown.  This gives Angmar such a huge advantage.  The only heroes that die decently easily are Drauglin, being a scout hero, and Helegwen, being a ranged hero.  Every other hero starts with 4500 or 5500 health if I remember that correctly.  And because of their numbers, they can really gang up on enemy heroes, and don't really have much of a threat of dieing, especially because..... Well read my next topic.  So I would suggest right now to lower the stats of the heroes a little bit.  Not to much to make them too hard to keep alive, but enough so they aren't so strong when together.

Freezing:  Angmar has so many ways of freezing the enemy.  Sorcerers can do it, Helegwen can do it, Zafragor can do it to heroes (which doesn't help the Hero problem mentioned earlier), and the biggest problem, Durmarth can do it to everyone with every attack.  There just can't be this many in my opinion.  Durmarth is the one who I think doesn't need it at all, because he is already a great hero, so removing his ability to freeze with every attack would help a lot.  But Angmar has so many Crowd Control methods, especially in the SpellBook, so another might need to be removed.

The Spellbook:  I really like how these problem transition into another :).

Anyways, back on topic.  The Spellbook is SO strong for Angmar.  I've seen Angmar kill entire Armies just using freezing and the Spellbook together to kill entire armies.  Fellwind work perfectly with the other powers because it clumps everyone together.  Frozen Land does pretty much the he same thing, but also doesn't let heroes or units escape.  Snowbind makes attacking Angmar such a pain.  And the strongest power Angmar has is Spread Plague, Which kills, not weakens, but kills anything that is not heavily Armoured elites or heroes.  Spread Plague brought down my army of Fully Upgraded Uruk-Hai down to the point where they almost die.  I can't even imagine to factions that rely on weaker units such as Mordor.  Now I do realize that balance for a power such as this is very hard to find, because too strong and it will be always used, and too weak and it will be never used, but if you can find it, it would be much appreciated, because right now it is stronger then Avalanche, which is also a very good Power.  Also, I would recommend making Frozen Land and SnowBind cost 3 points each.  The Orc summon can stay at 2.

The Troll Summon (can't remember the name) has a very weird balance.  The Hill Trolls themselves are incredibly easy to kill because they have 1400 health each, but Rogash is extremely strong if used well.  So I would recommend giving the Hill Trolls a lot more health.  As for Rogash, I'm going to need to test him out a bit more, but right now, he is really what Mollock should be.  But maybe I'm a bit biased, so I will test him more before I can say if he needs to change. 

Well that is pretty much it in terms of the major things.  Just a few other notes.

-Angmar is hard to play defending fortresses like Minas Tirith due to lack of settlements, which means not leveling up your production buildings.  So maybe those maps need to allow the carts to spawn from the Citadel.

-Wolf Riders are too hard to get because of the upgrade you need to purchase.  I know that it is used to Angmar can't rush them so quickly, but in my opinion, it also makes them not worth getting. 

-I think Thralls should be able to use Banner Carriers.  Not much else to say about that. 

-The Mill's discount just seems inferior to the Smelter's discount, as wolfs cost barely anything already, and upgrading your Men of Carn Dum is pretty key to winning. 

-On camp maps, the Angmar base has barely any room in it because of how big some of the buildings, such as the Hall of the King's Men and Dark Iron Forge. 

And that's it for now.  I would like to hear feedback from everyone, to see if I'm missing everything, or if I'm wrong about something.

Greetings, Hamanathnath
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EDIT:  Forgot 2 small things.  Stronghold of the Iron Crown also doesn't work on Fortress Maps when defending, which makes it useless there.  And also, while this has nothing to do with balance, but can Rogash have his Rise of the Witch King voice back?  I won't mind if he keeps the cave troll voice, but I really liked his old (if also a bit corny) lines :)

Draco100000:
Im completely agree with haman but I would like to add a few things.

1 Mages are way too powerfull and the idea to allow them to use all powers only purchasing 1 ( which is overpowered only paying 100 you get other more expensive powers) but also making much more easier their management. I think they should only be able to use 1 power no more, and dmg of death rain ( dunno the exact name) is too hig can decimate entire armies.

2 the stun of the mages is supposed to make enemie and alli units invulnerable, but they can still get poison dmg so corpse rain and plague powers ( from spellbokk and gulzar still damaging heavily the troops, way too powerfull.

3Then we go to the main units: Hillmen feels really weak and waste of money keeping in mind that each slave master costs 200 and each sumoneable unit cost a strandard price( you end up getting hillmen pikemen, orcs or axethrowers at the same price than other factions and the dmg buff you can get with settlements is not enough at all to compesate their high cost. I think reducing the price of the slave masters to 100 would be a good move to increase the value of this angmar units.

4 Kingsmen reduction cost should be given by some kind of farm or settlement and not from a hero. I find too necessary to use monamarth when he is 1 of the worsts heros for ealry game, but if you get him too late you wont be able to get elite troops and sooner or later other enemies will end up destroying your armie ( Unless you manage well mages and wights, i think this 2 units are the actual key of the faction, all other units feels like free orcs, just to use them as wall for my true power...)

5 In general all heros are too good on their roles all abilities feels very good ( no useless abilities or medium utility abilities) all are really powerfull and can change how a battle ends. Specially powerfull heros Zaphragor and Gulzar, both can destroy big number of enemies with their firsts abilities. Hwaldar stats are too high also.

ringbearer:

--- Zitat von: Draco100000 am  9. Apr 2016, 02:02 ---Im completely agree with haman but I would like to add a few things.

1 Mages are way too powerfull and the idea to allow them to use all powers only purchasing 1 ( which is overpowered only paying 100 you get other more expensive powers) but also making much more easier their management. I think they should only be able to use 1 power no more, and dmg of death rain ( dunno the exact name) is too hig can decimate entire armies.


--- Ende Zitat ---

Well, mages are able to use all the powers only after you build tower of sorcery. You need 1200 for outpost, 500 for tower of sorcery , 500 for mage and 100/200/400 for one power which after this unlock all the others. It's 2300 resources for a unit which can be easily killed by any cav.

I agree with point 2 and 4  :)

Draco100000:
Easily killed by cav? with that slows? Just freeze them and poison them is not that hard, you just have to maintaint them behind your armie. Also you can slow the caval, stun and flank it with your armie. GG easy 2 battallions of mages can make hillmen stronger than an entire upgraded armie of gondor ( plus all armor and dmg reductions, hillmen looks like elite units)

Even expending that amount of money corpse rain combined with other abilities is too usefull, just combining it with the abilitie that heals your units when the enemie units die is like a massive wizard blast that actually kill almost everything and maintain your armie alive, and just using 2 abilities. Mages are very cheap to how usefull they are. They can be limited in numbers to 2 for example and increased cost.

Another way to make them weaker would be increase enormously the time of respawn of the acolytes so you have to wait a lot of time to use again corpse rain or freezing that requires lot of acolytes but you can still using from time to time healing and slow down.

Even limited to 2 battallions they will still destroying entire armies. I dont understand their role in the faction, they are too powerfull and adds angmar unnecesary stuff. More slows more poison dmg...

I dont know i feel this mages really cool but really unbalanced too.

PD: 2300 resorces is poor quantity of money spècially with the amount of extra cash you get from the builders that upgrade buildings. You dont have to expend money in upgrade this buildings while you are also able to get 250-500 money per builder. Also you are not expending 2300 resources in 1 units, you get an outpost with the tactical advantage it means as well you  get instantly a builder that gives you 500 resources that make the real cost of the outpost 700, so no I cannot agree with you.

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