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Angmar Balance Discussion

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Skeeverboy:

--- Zitat --- I don't understand why you increased the cost of the basic outpost to 1600.
--- Ende Zitat ---
This change was because the outpost spawns instantly a tribute cart, which gives 500 ressources and has the leveling strength of two normal carts.

Adrigabbro:
Still, you now have to save more money than other factions to get an outpost and I agree with Kryptik, this is a bit unfair. His proposal is a very good alternative in my opinion.

Other than that, I think you are over reacting. I have tried Wights once back in 4.3.1 and I felt more like they were a waste of money compared to Angmar's other alternatives such as werewolves (who are indeed quite strong, I pointed it out on this very topic). But perhaps it was because I was mainly facing Rohan's hero rush and Wights have bad time against heroes.
Concerning Men of Carn Dum, they sure got nerfed but I don't think they are that useless. Time will tell.

Elite KryPtik:
Wanna 1v1 me, Angmar vs Mordor? I can show you firsthand how good wights are and how useless men of carn dum are.

Odysseus:
@Elite
I don't understand why suddenly Men of Carn-Dum are useless. Nothing was changed about them. They are identical to the previous versions. Only the Pikemen reflect damage on less sources with their passive and Mornamarth's price reduction has been lowered. So not sure what you are saying.

I would be okay with a small 100 cost increase for Wights, similar to Beornings and decrease their armour and health by a tiny bit, like 5-10%. I would also agree that the Barrow Wight Lair could take more time to level. To compensate, Karsh could have a passive leadership at level 6-7 for Wights that increases armour again, and perhaps the rate at which the barrow wight lair levels and that barrow wight lairs share levels, instead of barrow wights themselves near a Karsh summoned tunnel. Just some thoughts on the subject. Price increase for Werewolves should be pretty fair too I guess.

Skeeverboy makes a fair point though. Agree to that. I don't really mind if the Outpost would cost 1200, and the upgrades for it would be more epxensive. It almost amounts to the same thing anyway.

Vodohaka:

--- Zitat von: Elite KryPtik am 16. Mai 2016, 19:10 ---Definitely agree, but with some different points.

Finally, we come to Men of Carn Dum. They are, as of now, COMPLETELY USELESS. Paying 500 for elite units that have a hard time against even basic swordsmen, and 600 for pikes and archers, is completely untenable and impossible to maintain, even late game. You also need to upgrade them before they reach their full potential, in addition to their incredible price. I understand the idea is to have them beat elite units of other factions with similar costs, but if your enemy goes for Men of Carn Dum all you have to do is spam your most basic unit and shred them. This is especially true with Isengard and the HUGE discount they can get on their heavy uruks. I think the pikes and swords each need a flat discount of 100 each, and Mornamarth should get his discount for the Men of Carn Dum at level 2. I guarantee that right now, with all the changes he has gotten, he is a super low priority hero for people, but if you change his ability to unlock easier he will become useful again.

Finally, a last point I just came up with. I don't understand why you increased the cost of the basic outpost to 1600. I think that's really unfair, every other factions outpost equivalent costs 1200. I think instead of increasing the cost of the basic outpost, you should increase the cost of the upgrades for it, Garrison Tower and Tower of Sorcery. Taking Garrison Tower from 500 to 1k would be fine in my opinion, and similarly for Tower of Sorcery(I never use sorcerers so I don't know the price :P) The 1600 cost can really hurt Angmar in terms of claiming an outpost quickly, where other factions have access to it for much cheaper. Hell, even the freaking dwarves basic outpost, with its incredible defenses, only costs 1200. I think that this should be reconsidered, I don't understand why it was even changed in the first place.
Thanks for reading :)

--- Ende Zitat ---

+1

I agree with Elite KryPtik that all standard outposts should cost 1200. If you want to weaken Angmars outposts you could do this by increasing the upgrade costs as suggested. I can understand that the cart spanning immediate is seen as a problem. Still Angmars outpost no longer produces ressources and the cart should be see as compensation for those resources.

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