Angmar Balance Discussion

[Odysseus]

I don't know if it is possible, but I thought it would be interesting to implement the following feature: Zaphragor cannot be killed by his own abilities, but always keeps 1hp if he were to die with sufficient hitpoints. If he does not have enough health, he cannot use his spells obviously. And perhaps reduce the health drainage a little bit for all his spells and we are good.

[Hamanathnath]

Well I personally hope for the abilities to actually do the amount of damage to himself as it says In the ability descriptions, so 3500 health for Raging anger when above 50% health.

Though if Zafragor uses Fanaticism before Raging Anger just above 50% health, then he will still die, so I agree with Odysseus.  If he can stay above 1 HP when using abilities, that would be good.

[Elite KryPtik]

Yeah, I never agreed with a straight armor nerf for Zaph, even though I didn't pipe up about it. What he needed was more vulnerability to enemies, not less armor against his own abilities. Something should definitely be done about this, because as it stands now Zaph isn't really worth the money to get at all.

[Draco100000]

Yeah his price in werewolves is much more worth right now ;D

[Odysseus]

@Kryptik
I think Zaphragor's mechanic was adjusted to that previous armour value.

Right now, only the required health to cast his spells needs to be fixed and properly tweaked. Also, as I said, if possible, make it so that he cannot die from casting his own spells as long as he meets the requirements to do so. That way, he can cast several spells before risking death and the opponent still has a chance to get exp from killing him when he is at 1 hp.

[Elendils Cousin 3. Grades]

I don't like the idea of him staying at 1 hp at all times. When he's just above 50% health and casts his last ability while under fanatism, he should die. It's so powerful you can kill an entire army with it, so he should pay the price for that. Just don't activate fanatism before casting his lvl 10 ability (or sacrifice him if you think it's worth it)... you can still use the ability in normal mode to devastating effect.

[Hamanathnath]

I see your point of view Elendils Cousin 3. Grades.  The problem is right now that even at full health and without Fanaticism, Zafragor still dies from Raging Anger.  Hopefully if they change it to where the abilities do the amount of Damage to Zafragor they say they do, we will not have this problem.

Just a quick update though, Zafragor CAN survive using Raging Anger at full health IF he is put into Defensive Stance.  However, he will become very close to death, so proceed with caution before doing this.

But the real most effective strategy for Raging Anger right now it pairing it with Durmarth's Oath of the Guardsmen.  The Armor Boost from that Makes Zafragor not take much damage at all from the ability, even with Fanaticism active and in Aggressive Stance.  So this ability has more use then I initially thought..... Assuming you have a Durmarth.  Makes me wonder how Brokenly Overpowered using Oath of the Guardsmen on Zafragor was before he got nerfed.     

I think the real problem here is this:  Zafragor's abilities Self Damage is Affected by Armor.  Is there anyway that this can do fixed damage to himself, so say Raging Anger will always do 3500 damage to himself above 50% health, regardless of how much Armor he has?  Because now we have the problem that if we do lower the Amount of Damage he does to himself, combined with Durmarth, his self damaging abilities won't do pretty much anything to him.

[Elendils Cousin 3. Grades]

I like that combo actually, it's pretty neat. I wouldn't remove that^^
Zaphragor dying without Fanaticism active is a bug, but you posted that already, right? That should get fixed then.

I don't know if damage can be uneffected by armor, but hey, that's not my job anyway

[Odysseus]

I found something interesting. I want you to pay particular attention to the second round of the video and tell me what you see that you might find surprising: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNMs7cVmDJg

It's obviously a bug, but I'd post it here first in case it was not. Hope it will be fixed for the next patch.

[Skeeverboy]

Personally I won't see it as a bug, it's more like a strong attack if a hero meets her allone
It's like Gandalfs flashsword (his second ability). If a hero walks allone and Gandalf use it, he will get the full damage of the ability too.

[Darkayah]

I agree with Skeeverboy.
It's the same way like Gandalfs ability.
The shoot is against more enemies, but if is only one enemy close to her, the enemy gets the full damage of the ability. ^^
It isn't a bug so.

[Odysseus]

Except Gandalf costs 3000, comes late, gets that ability at level 2-3 and Lightning Sword is not instantaneous, and gives time to your opponent to get away, no?

Helewen costs 1400, gets the ability by default and it can almost one shot a hero. If it's not a bug, then how exactly is it healthy for gameplay?

In case I haven't made my point clear, I enjoy powerful abilities, but I dislike abilities that remove 90% of a hero's health bar, no matter what exactly there may be to counter balance such a feat. Even more so if you consider that Helegwen has no hero killer aspects or roles. I would just reduce its damage to heroes, because it reminds me too much of Legolas' old Hawk Strike, where you could say bye-bye to your hero .

For the record, I am not frustrated (which it may seem like when I read back my general tone in the post), but I am just really baffled such damage is in an early to midgame hero with a point click ability.

[Darkayah]

 In your Video Helegwen dies in every fight against Legolas. So what ist the problem?
And every arrow in the shot does damage. If you go in an one vs one against her it is your fault... i can't see a problem. ^^

[Elite KryPtik]

I must agree with Skeever and Darkness here, landing every arrow in the ability on a single hero is going to be impossible in a real game, as the hero will be surrounded by troops as well. I did notice that her arrow rain seems to also freeze heroes, which seems kind of silly to me, but otherwise I have no issue with any of her abilities.

[calixoxx]

I think Angmar has as many freezes/slowdowns as Lorien has stuns. It's a little crazy. The only suggestion I would have is to debuff Helegwen. Either her freeze arrow ability needs a longer recharge, it needs a higher level, OR it needs a shorter active time. I also wouldn't mind seeing a smaller range. I do believe her ability to freeze so easily is a little crazy. Something should be done about it. It's not quite as a nuisance as Haldir's arrow but pretty close imo.