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Autor Thema: Angmar Balance Discussion  (Gelesen 42799 mal)

Elite KryPtik

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Re: Angmar Balance Discussion
« Antwort #90 am: 12. Jan 2017, 21:04 »
Agreed, Helegwen's Freezing Arrow and Haldir's Golden Arrow are a bit too strong, but I will just say wait until the next version ;)
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The_Necromancer0

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Discussing Mornamarth's Cruel Assault Ability
« Antwort #91 am: 17. Jan 2018, 13:27 »
What are everyone's thoughts on Mornamarth's Cruel Assault ability? I feel that death of all the targeted units is too much of a penalty even for such a boost. The only possible uses I could see of it is during team games when you are holding back two players alone.  This ability will only be used when death of all the troops is the only possible outcome since it can only serve as a way to prolong the battle. Perhaps during base rushing too but it's a risky move and base rushing is uncommong by the time you have a LV10 Mornamarth.

Possible changes would include, dealing a certain amount of damage to all units, such as half their health 2/3rds their health, ect... Or hindering them with a terrible permanent/temporary debuff. A temporary debuff would reduce all their stats by a huge number while a permanent buff would target more the ability of the unit to be effective, perhaps reducing their attack, attack speed and movement speed.
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Julio229

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Re: Angmar Balance Discussion
« Antwort #92 am: 17. Jan 2018, 13:34 »
I think something like that temporary debuff could work: having triple strength for thirty seconds but having really hampered stats for the next minute, maybe? (don't know exactly what I would debuff)

Edit: Maybe the exact same things that are buffed could be the debuff for the next minute, apart from a loss in health, to reflect their exhaustion after putting such strength in the attack?
« Letzte Änderung: 17. Jan 2018, 13:41 von Julio229 »


Edhelharn

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Re: Angmar Balance Discussion
« Antwort #93 am: 16. Feb 2020, 16:29 »
With the release of 4.5 Lothlorien's forge has both weapon upgrades and economy upgrades. The forge also still produces resources itself and as such is able to be targeted by Angmar's Blight spellbook power.

In 4.4.1 this power could be used effectively against Lorien in many ways due to all their inner buildings producing resources. Because of this, I feel that it could be mitigated somewhat considering each building in general focused on a single tech.

However, now that the forge has both upgrades and needs a costly eco upgrade before accessing weapon upgrades i feel the power becomes too effective against Lorien (and makes the forge the obvious go-to to target).

At this point I'm more speculating as I haven't played the match up enough to know for certain the outcome of the power. It would be nice to know what other people think about this as well.

Elendils Cousin 3. Grades

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Re: Angmar Balance Discussion
« Antwort #94 am: 16. Feb 2020, 18:47 »
Agreed, the Blight shouldn't be able to target Lorien's forge.

Archaon the Ever-Salty

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Re: Balancediskussion Angmar
« Antwort #95 am: 19. Feb 2020, 09:58 »
in my opinion the eco of angmar with the current inflation is a bit OP comparatively to everyone else when they get map control and the reason for this is tribute carts

income values on tribute carts needs to be altered a bit i think
for starters i think a outpost paying 2/3rds of its price in tribute instantly then again every 3 minutes is silly
its cart is worth 800
well 800 to 1015
depends if you send the cart to a fully teched hall of men or to a building not fully leveled
and yes sending tribute carts to halls of men makes more money then sending it anywhere else
i don't know why its just how it is
creeping a troll getting the loot and building the outpost literally pays for the outpost and you get 100 resources on top of that, not to mention being able to make instant men of carn dum

because of how the tribute system works angmar snowballs super hard when they gain map control much like everyone did back a patch ago. this patch made their outside plots make the same as everyone else plus make tribute which is more free money, it was a huge boost to their eco. so i'm bringing this up so other people can help brainstorm ways to rework the tribute system to be less insane economically as currently angmar has a stronger eco than late game isengard.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/327177778497847296/679510292543045662/unknown.png

Elendils Cousin 3. Grades

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Re: Angmar Balance Discussion
« Antwort #96 am: 24. Feb 2020, 00:00 »
The outpost cart should be worth 500, which building did you use it on? Hall of the King's Men?

Reverting the buff to Angmar's economy seems the easiest course of action here, the income difference you reported is indeed way over the top.

Archaon the Ever-Salty

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Re: Angmar Balance Discussion
« Antwort #97 am: 24. Feb 2020, 02:01 »
tribute cart income is impacted by the structures production speed, so higher level structures make more from tribute carts. level 3 hall of the kings men making the most due to the most production speed, this is the only explanation i could come up for it...... its actually a localized version of the lorian eco bug nobody seemed to notice because it was only for tribute carts. i tested throwing carts into all structures for awhile and thats the only corrolation i could come up with. eco upgrades didn't impact it at all

Edit. looked into it a bit more and its the garrison tower on the outpost that makes it so the tribute carts make more money at the hall of the kings men. because of the +30% production speed boost https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/327177778497847296/681389238314598454/unknown.png?width=911&height=684
« Letzte Änderung: 24. Feb 2020, 07:38 von Archaon the Ever-Salty »

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Re: Angmar Balance Discussion
« Antwort #98 am: 24. Feb 2020, 08:20 »
Thanks for the tests.

Big F

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Re: Angmar Balance Discussion
« Antwort #99 am: 26. Mär 2020, 00:58 »
This is the Angmar subsection of my gameplay & balance post over at the general balance discussion thread.

Karsh is too good for his cost at level 1 getting a life steal, a second life and a debuff at level 1 and starting with a lot of health.

Thrall masters are still way to bad against competent players. Especially scout heroes and even more so ranged scout heroes make them completely unviable.

Aiphaton

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Re: Angmar Balance Discussion
« Antwort #100 am: 3. Apr 2020, 20:22 »
Hi you all,

I've also got and idea on how to change thralls for the better without having to nerf towers or potential thrall-sniping by whatever units.

1. Spellbook: Imo and also the opinion of others the blight (tier 1) is too strong (especially in the EG of some matchups), while the thrall-buff-spell (tier 3) is bearly used in MP at all since there are way better strategies to go with and no one goes for so many thralls until the point of the game where you actually get enough spellpoints.
So my idea on that:
- a) Swap the spells, tier one works similar to rohan's draft now -> One thrall gets the upgrade and a small weaker hoard of units is summoned for a short time
- b) blight gets a rework where it's duration is decreased but it entirely disables the building it's used on for that amount of time, this works regardless of the building and would be a good tier 3 spell

2. Formations for thralls:
The main issue I'm having with those units is that the thralls position themselves as they want to. It can be micromanaged but most of the times this does no real good. On top of that retreating is often the death sentence of the thrall since he follows the batallion. So sniping a fleeing thrall batallion with archers, cav and even swords is a thing. I'd like to see different formations in order to protect the thrall.
- a) Usual stance (just like it is right now)
- b) Retreating stance (Thrall is in front of the batallion)
- c) Fighting stance (Thrall is surrounded by his batallion which protect him)

I think this would help thralls a lot and actually make it a unit which is also still an option to go for in mid- or even lategame (especially the sort of crappy thrallcav)

Let me know what you think!

Best regards,
Aiphaton
« Letzte Änderung: 4. Apr 2020, 00:58 von Aiphaton »

Vin55

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Re: Angmar Balance Discussion
« Antwort #101 am: 3. Apr 2020, 20:25 »
Those are some nice ideas, the question would be can you actually code this. But I would agree that those changes would be logical.

Mgf Vin55

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Re: Angmar Balance Discussion
« Antwort #102 am: 3. Apr 2020, 21:30 »
1. I do really like the position of the thrall-buff-spell right now. It sure comes pretty late, but I'd rather liked to see it with 5 costs instead of 6 spellpoint costs. If I do understand you right, you wanna use a system like the Rohan horn. 
The thing about the spell that I love is that it gives the player a really good opportunity to also use his thrall-masters in lategame. Making it a front row spell would take this away, since it would then be pretty nasty/ micro intense to use it as an active spell. Like that, more players would probably just switch to Carn Dum units and the units would have to be less strong.

2. Would be nice. Could be combined with normal stance (aggressive, defensive and normal stance) so it would be less micro intense to use.

Smeargollum

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Re: Angmar Balance Discussion
« Antwort #103 am: 4. Apr 2020, 11:03 »
Hello together!
Even though I agree with you that Angmar thrall masters are a suboptimal eg units I am against making the thrall spell a tier one or tier two spell. The idea of the spell is to have thrall master as a viable option for the later game and not just an eg units you want to get rid of as quickly as possible.
And I also think that this spell can be used quite well even in the multiplayer because you get a lot of spam units which you can use perfectly as a meat shield for higher tech units of Angmar such as werewolves or sorcerers. That spell allows you to tech up for units which are not Carn Dum units and with that bring a lot more interesting strategies to the game. So I really like that spell as it is now, except that it could cost a little less spell points.

The suggestion for special formations of the thrall masters is interesting for me but I fear that this is not possible as a reliable option with the engine. :o

Instead I would like to see other, hopefully easier, buffs for the thrall masters in the eg. That could be a higher armor against ranged heroes as it is very strong at the moment to just right click a thrall master with your Gildor and the whole battalion just dies. If I remember correctly someone (I don’t remember who it was) suggested in the German forum part to make the tackiness of the thrall master relative to the size of the battalion. So when the thrall batt is still full the thrall master tanks a lot but when there are only two guys left in the battalion he dies as quickly as now. But I don’t know if that is possible to code. But if it is possible, I would really like that.

Best regards
Smeargollum


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The_Necromancer0

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Re: Angmar Balance Discussion
« Antwort #104 am: 2. Jul 2020, 23:23 »
Now that the Angmar outposts only cost 800, the tribute cart it spawns on construction refunds a much greater portion of its cost and doesn't require protecting the outpost at all. My suggestion is that the outpost function the same way as the other cart spawning buildings, only spawning a cart after 3 minutes instead of on the completion.
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