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The heroes of Angmar - Your feedback

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Garlodur:
I agree with the high amount of heroes but it is a shame that some of the work the ET put in will be lost when we take away heroes. In the essence, I find Helegwen's role superfluous: she is not much of anything but tickling the enemy. She has very little resistance to attacks and is barely an annoyance herself. Her abilities beside the arrow stances are not very interesting and there is no point in the game where I decide that she will make the difference, she simply does not fit in my tactics as a hero that needs a lot of micro managing. Her arrow switching can be implemented in the Carn Dûm archers in some way, e.g. an arrow volley of Frozen arrows.

In general I find that Angmar needs a lot of micromanaging because there are different ways to handle the enemy. This makes for a variety of possible tactics but its real strength lies in MP matches, I imagine, because of the created uncertainty among opponents. The heroes are no exception as Zaphragor, Gulzar, Drauglin, Durmarth and Helegwen need a lot of attention while playing. The Witch-King and Mornamarth can easily be send off with an army of Men of Carn Dûm, Hwaldar with all the thrall summons and Karsh defending your burrows, whereas the aforementioned are very vulnerable once you lose track of them.

Example of this is Gulzar: he does not do significant damage (much like the Necromancer, but toned down) and his abilities revolve around his acolytes that spread the plague just like in the spellbook. This makes him not as useful to every player as he needs to use his acolytes effectively to level up and use them even more effectively. His final ability sounds quite cool in theory but I have not tested it extensively. If this ability is the only reason to keep him I suggest moving it to a hero like Dûrmarth. Zaphragor could be made into a more powerful mass-slayer to make up for Gulzar's absence.

I would like to see other people's opinions.

Walküre:
I don't want to question one of the pillars of the faction (that I also accept as something quite consolidated in the faction itself), but I never really liked all the 'sacrifice motive' lying behind the usage of sorcery in Angmar, nor do we really have in the lore any consistent reference to sacrifices of that kind in evil Magic in general.
Anyway, as I said, I accept this if we take into consideration that we have so little material about Angmar in the official lore, and that many things are consolidated elements within the Community.
Nevertheless, I think Gulzar should be removed.
I personally have no motivation, interest nor advantage in recruiting him while playing; my interpretation of Magic is the major reason.

I find Helegwen the most innovative hero of Angmar (also for the fact of being the first and only female evil hero in the game), and I think she was implemented for this very reason.
She is also very versatile and can count on very smart and effective abilities. I see the German Community has poured a lot of efforts in conceiving her, and the result is simply great.
If another hero has to be removed, I think she could easily take Drauglin's role as a Scout Hero too.

Hamanathnath:
If I were to choose one, Helegwen would be my choice.  When I do use her, it is mainly for her Crowd Control options, but like others have said, past that, she really doesn't have much of a Role in Angmar.  Angmar already has a lot of Crowd Control options anyways.  But.....

Here is the problem.  Removing just one of the heroes won't really fix the problem, especially if that hero is Helegwen.  The heroes will still have the same problem of using Crowd Control options to pretty much nullify Armies, and ganging up on other heroes.  I would like to see some of the heroes, especially the ones that cost less, to have a smaller amount of health and/or, weaker stats in general.  If I remember correctly, Hwaldar has 4500 at a cost of 1100 resources, with also a good amount of damage.  This, in my opinion, is too much.  I know that some other factions have this as well, but they don't have as many heroes as Angmar. 

If you do remove Helegwen, I have a suggestion to make about moving some of her abilities.  Namely, her last ability (the damage increase of Ice Arrows and Ice Shots) and the Ice Wall summon (I don't know the faction well enough to know the names of all the heroes abilities :P).  I want both these to be upgrades to the Sorcerer's Tower upgrade on the Outpost.  Right now, the Garrison Tower is just better becuase of how you pretty much need the Men of Carn Dum to win matches.  Upgrading the Sorcerer's Tower with these upgrades would definitely make it a more compare able choice.  It also would fit in to the Sorcerer's Tower magic/elemental theme of the upgrade (maybe it can be called Tower of the Elements).  The Ice Walls can be a permanent upgrade to the Outposts defenses, because the Garrison Tower already has a permanent defensive upgrade in the archers that defend the Citadel.  And Helegwen current last ability would just make the Sorcerer's Tower more appealing, because upgrading the damage of Archers and Catapults is very useful. 

What do you think of this idea?

Greetings, Hamanathnath

Odysseus:
How about we balance the damn heroes first before we start removing them :P. I mean, it would be a waste of effort to just ditch them now. 4.3 hasn't even been out for like a week, and we already want to remove Angmar's heroes because there are supposedly too many? Is is not way too early to come up with such a conclusion.?

First of all, I gave my feedback on the heroes in the internal forums, so I would like to have some feedback on that. Secondly, I agree that out of all heroes, Helegwen is the most out of place because she has very little support for troops and already has a playstyle that other heroes of the roster provide or the Spellbook provides sufficiently with stuns and AOE spells. That said, it would be quite the stab in the back for the German community to remove her.

My personal concern is mostly Zaphragor at the moment. He seems to outshine the Witch-King with his abilities, and he is cheaper too. His feet are too big and he is taller than the Witch-King. There, I said it :P. Oh and Hwaldar and Durmarth stats might need some fine-tuning too imo.

Ultimately, I believe the problem with Angmar to be that heroes have way too many additional aspects. The faction has like 4-5 heroes with the ability to use mass slayer abilities. Even though the old 2015 document does not state it quite so, I believe most of Angmar's heroes have way too many abilities that are extremely good for their costs compared to the other factions' heroes.

If you look at Angmar, the Witch-King is the leader, the pinnacle and ruler. But at the moment, most heroes of Angmar can already fulfill his role with less costs. Zaphragor can blow apart squads with his AOE abilities, Helegwen has a slightly weaker wizard blast with arrows, Gulzar can summon plague bearers, Mornamarth has a large splash attack with Blood and Iron, Karsh has the huge life steal, even Drauglin has the razor crescent ability. Only Hwaldar and Durmarth do not have some kind of mass slayer ability. And as Haman pointed out, mass slaying being a form of crowd control, the faction teems with crowd control. I believe, just like in 3.8.1, the specific heroes should be more supportive to their specific cult in Angmar's society. The Witch King should be the grant leader, the mass slayer with a hero killer and support aspect. As such, you could make him cost 3500, like Mordor's Witch King with armour and improve his abilities a bit.

Hwaldar should mostly support hill-men only, and those Bone Breakers with his abilities. Also, that level 10 ability should not one-shot buildings, no ability should really do that, apart from Isengard mines perhaps.
Karsh should support Barrow Wights more. Durmarth should support on foot Black/Shadow Guard more, while the Witch-King could have some support for mounted Shadow Guard. Mornamarth should exploit his Men of Carn-Dûm less, and support them more instead. Gulzar should be more supportive of sorcerers. Drauglin in wolf form could support dire wolves more etc. Orcs and trolls should remain unsupported because they are at the bottom of the chain of command in Angmar's man-dominated society and serve the role of labour or combat fodder.

You can see where I am going with this. Before all of that, I would sternly advise against removing any heroes at the moment, and balance/sort them out first. Only after that, would I check again if removal would serve as a solution. If you give them less crowd control and more supportive functions with the varied unit roster Angmar has, you can better justify the high amount of heroes Angmar has. In that way, you can tailor your hero selection to the strategy you wish to employ during a game, combining specific troops and heroes. For example, if you go extensive barrow-wights, you would go Karsh to support them and not go Hwaldar for instance. But now, you can easily combine these, having both Karsh performing quite well together with Hill-men or orcs. This is just an example, but I think it applies almost to the entire faction.

Just my two cents.

Fredius:
I feel like I'm the only one here who prefers to use Helegwen as one of the first heroes in a game :P. I'm a turtle style player, meaning that I lock myself in the fortress and build up my army slowly and steadily. I always put Helegwen on the walls and let her shoot at a the enemy, which levels her up rapidly. Once leveled up she is a great archer hero who can one-shot kill many units, and as a bonus, you can put other hero's next to her, and they will level up together with her everytime she kills an enemy unit. I believe her to be super effective, when used in the right way.

However I never use heroes like Gulzar and Durmath. I don't see why the sorcerers need a hero among them; the greatest sorcerer of Angmar is the Witch-King after all. And gameplay-wise I find the other heroes more interesting and would rather spend my resources on them than Gulzar. That's why Gulzar is my least favorite hero.

I never use Durmath because I don't really understand his role, and, like Gulzar, would prefer to spend my resources on other heroes instead of him.

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