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Misty Mountains Speculations and Questions

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Walküre:

--- Zitat von: esparado87 am 12. Nov 2016, 23:55 ---Will the "Siege" update come this year?

--- Ende Zitat ---

This kind of information is not provided here and in these terms (the topic of the thread is another one). The update will be released once it's ready to be so  ;)

WarOfTheRingVeteran:

--- Zitat von: esparado87 am 12. Nov 2016, 23:06 ---Have the units and heroes of Misty Mountain changed since this article was published?
http://www.moddb.com/mods/edain-mod/news/the-road-to-edain-40-misty-mountains-part-two

--- Ende Zitat ---

Well, there is some new stuff; Great Goblin and The Defiler have been reworked:

http://www.moddb.com/mods/edain-mod/images/the-great-goblin2#imagebox
http://www.moddb.com/mods/edain-mod/images/the-defiler1#imagebox  (respectively, as if anyone needed this XD

..and a new hero has been added: http://www.moddb.com/mods/edain-mod/images/the-hunter#imagebox  about who you can read here: http://www.moddb.com/mods/edain-mod/news/the-road-to-edain-40-the-scout-heroes

Also a new article has been posted: http://www.moddb.com/mods/edain-mod/news/the-road-to-edain-40-of-trolls-and-army-commanders

I'm pretty sure that's it. And this: http://www.moddb.com/mods/edain-mod/images/improved-widescreen-interface8#imagebox , though you've probably seen it already.

dkbluewizard:
Good day everyone,

Anyhow, I know that ET has selected the dragon Smaug to be the Ringhero of the Misty Mountains and I know that they have also selected William, Bert, and Tom, Bolg, and many other heroes to represent the Misty Mountains during the "Hobbit" timeline.

While I do not have an issue with this, ET focuses on War of the Ring, and many of the characters listed in Misty Mountains are dead by the time of War of the Ring.

I mean, ET could still use Gorkil the Moria Goblin Chief, but I would like to see Misty Mountains have the ability to pick from their old heroes: (Original Great Goblin design from Edain, Original characters that Edain Team had before the Hobbit movies were finished) just so they can participate in the War of the Ring and become more canonical.

Or are we saying that just mishmash them with War of the Ring and who gives a rats?

Anyhow, if this system cannot be included for the heroes, then I would like to see this system included on certain maps if possible with all Third Age heroes like the Balrog, Moria Goblin Chief, new Great Goblin, Bruhdur of the trolls, etc.

Because Misty Mountains, like all factions of Middle Earth, deserve to be more canonical. And most assuredly there would be a new Great Goblin/Ruler over Goblin Gate and Gundabad.

I don't know, what do you guys think. I don't think this is too much to ask and the armies would stay the same, be built the same way and utilize the same units, only thing that would change is their heroes to represent both timelines. I think since there is an Arnor way of doing this and a Dwarf way of doing this, I can only see this making the faction that much more interesting.

"But Dkbluewizard, what about powers?"

Again, with the Arnor system, the powers were totally different. Also, if a certain time period is chosen for the Misty Mountains, then the last powers would change. Instead of summoning the Balrog, you summon an average dragon from vanilla BFME2.

If you choose to play the Hobbit time period, then you get the Balrog summon (which Edain is doing anyways). So I think these all work out and it make the Misty Mountains more interesting, fun, and canonical.

But as always there is the challenge of coding. Which I still think it could be done rather easily given the Dwarf and Arnor system that we have.

Let me know how I have disgruntled you guys. I really don't see an issue with this and would like to see this more canonical to Tolkien's work. It would still be balanced. Let me know what you all think.

--dkbluewizard.

Walküre:
Thank you for having shared with us your suggestions, Blue. First of all, I will merge the topic with another far wider thread about the Misty Mountains that we established some time ago. I had exactly opted to gather all the contributions regarding these matters (for now) in one single space, so that we were easily allowed to brainstorm a bit, before the Edain Team announced the patch that would release the last planned faction; only then may the Moderators allow diverse proposals to spread normally across the boards of the forum. In that wide-ranging discussion, we dealt with a lot of extremely pivotal themes: from gameplay systems to a possible overhaul of Smaug's concept (something I always advocate with passion). As far as the debate developed until now, I have to say that I'm really satisfied with the result. I'm sure your ideas shall enrich it even more.

Now, on the matter, I want to clarify an important aspect you addressed. The timeline of the Misty Mountains will be set during the events of the Hobbit, and not during the War of the Ring. This is a quite clever solution that permitted the developers to feed both from the LOTR trilogy (without major contradictions) and from the recent Hobbit trilogy equally. In particular, the whole LOTR atmosphere will necessarily be centred around the legendary Moria sequence and its eerie elements (the treacherous environment of the mines and the very situational presence of the Balrog via the spellbook); on the other hand, the Hobbit trilogy gives us well vast fields to focus on Gundabad, the heroes that lead the legions of the Orcs and, obviously, the greatest calamity of all: Smaug the Golden. I would consider them as the main guidelines they decided to follow.

Surely, it's not that these decisions avoid all issues entirely. One problem, in fact, was how to resolve the problematical role of Azog and his very presence in the fist place. The Hobbit timeline is thus a kind of mild way via which it's possible to live up to the expectations that the Hobbit films naturally create, without contrasting with the other two timelines (the Battle of Azanulbizar and LOTR). And so it's quite acceptable, in my opinion, why Azog becomes the apparently generic 'Hunter' and Bolg retains his proper characterisation according to the lore. In light of all these points, as I already stated in the thread this topic will soon be merged with, I think the most important themes which ought to be looked into are the overhaul of Smaug (to resemble even more the linkage to the Hobbit trilogy) and possible expanded roles for some heroes (as the Hunter). It's absolutely paramount that the Misty Mountains be one the most Hobbit-based factions of the game, as its properties strongly suggest.

A system akin to the one of the Dwarves or of Arnor might unnecessarily disrupt the current subfaction-system (three realms), since those two factions' mechanics are not meant to deal with timeline issues (at least, not primarily); they are intended to make three different factions coexist in a coherent design (Dwarves) or to allow another faction to be available in the game (Arnor). Those are not the cases of the Goblins. By the way, I really recommend you browse the whole discussion, where I and other people discussed many more topics and phrased our arguments a good deal better than this summary of mine  ;)

dkbluewizard:
Diewalkure sir,

I agree with what you posted and what has been said. I think I am being misunderstood--and if I misunderstood your post I apologize.

My issue is not with the faction at all. Like you I agree with how the faction should be implemented, I am just concerned with the heroes that are dead by the time of the War of the Ring.

However, I would be will put aside that issue if and only if on the War of the Ring mode, we got new heroes that were alive during the War of the Ring, similar to ET having Erebor be the main faction in War of the Ring mode.

I just want consistency. That doesn't mean that ET's idea for Misty Mountains isn't good, I just want to expand on it. Building it and making it more copacetic. Unfortunately, this is not the case with the heroes that are there now.

I agree that based on everything represented ET has done a darn good job of representing the Hobbit films pertaining to this faction. But what about the lore? We have done that consistently with all other factions why is MM so different?

Hardly any of the heroes for the WOTR are represented, to me that is a shame. It is like we're saying, "Here are the MM and the heroes from the Hobbit. They are not really applicable in WOTR." Even though in the books they chased the Fellowship and went into Rohan with Isengard and Mordor Orcs.

But if you say that ET has decided to only set MM in the Hobbit era, then I guess I need not comment further, but this seems really odd given that they have made adjustments and blendings for every faction. It looks weird and that is the only thing I have to say about it. But if what's done is done, then I guess that is that.

Still would like the new heroes for WOTR mode to be implemented though...

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