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Misty Mountains Speculations and Questions

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Darkayah:

--- Zitat von: Odysseus am 23. Mai 2017, 00:23 ---If Edain somehow manages to get their hands on that gorgeous THL/AOTR Smaug, I could die a happy man. Maybe if we ask DúnedainRanger or Mathijs very nicely ^^.

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I think the Smaug from Edain is good enough and detailed. I like this one more that the one from AOTR.

AulëTheSmith:

--- Zitat von: DieWalküre am 23. Mai 2017, 08:35 ---As Julio rightly pointed out, heroes can't cost more than 3000 resources. A sort of rule that we may not defy. It's thus imperative that values be confined within that range. Also, if I remember correctly, there are gameplay-related reasons for that choice, given that the Edain Team didn't want to make any hero that expensive (and therefore effective), as it would happen in the previous chapters of the Mod's history. The 4.0 era is generally more focused on coordinating the different characteristics of each faction and on finding a holistic strategy (rather than relying too much on single features).

Regarding Smaug's design, I doubt that the AOTR Team would gladly agree with sharing such precious model, and I would totally understand their decision. We're not talking about a general unit or other secondary characters; I think their own version of Smaug is really the prime jewel of their own vision and impressive gallery, and every project is probably supposed to retain its own unique elements. Reversing the reasoning, it would just be like the Edain Team sharing their central subfaction-system of the Misty Mountains with another project. This consideration of mine is obviously set aside from the fact that I too would love to see that amazing concept in the game; hopefully, the current model will be overhauled or the Edain Team will create another anew (though extremely difficult it might turn out to be).

Feel nonetheless welcome to develop the discussion further, since we get closer and closer to the Misty Mountains with each day passing, even if that is a quite slow process ;)

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Thanks Diewalk ;) as I can see a lot of people care very much about this argument.
About the cost I understand the point: the idea of certain tasks (e.g. The treasure cave at level 3 and others) to be completed beside a 3000 cost is very good and balance and it avoids to concentrate all the cost in the cost of the hero himself.
What I don't want to see, first of all, is a cheap Smaug but very weak. In name of balance I agree arrows are the only weapon to beat him in flight,  but we have to find a right middle point between extremely weak (I mean when he encounters a group of archers he's slayed in a second)  and extremely strong. An increase of armor in the middle (level 5) just like other heroes in edain, would be perfect in my opinion ;). An edain current example? Well trolls are a good example. A fully upgraded level 5 troll of Mordor is more effective against arrows with respect to previous versions of the game.
On the ground Smaug would be more weak  against heroes and pikes (but not so much like other monsters, damn, we are talking about a dragon  :D :D !!).


--- Zitat von: Beautiful Darkness am 23. Mai 2017, 10:30 ---I think the Smaug from Edain is good enough and detailed. I like this one more that the one from AOTR.

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Edain 4 deserves something more in my opinion. Anyway Of course we cannot force Aotr to give us their model. But is a good example of a 4 legs Smaug.
As a starting point, why not reshape the current Smaug? The summoned dragon from vanilla (from which he comes from) has a more "serpentine" aspect and animation with respect to Drogoth. Starting from this Edain would create a unique and epic model too. I like the red color of the current Smaug:

Secret Keeper:
Smaug from 3.8.1 is really not bad, small tweaking and he is good to go IMO. Important think is to find him a good place in MM faction, as he doesn't belong to them (lore-wise) so much.

Back to Aules idea: I like your proposal about abilities, fit's perfectly. I would change Rank 5: “Dragon Sickness (passive) - I hope that ET will keep scavenger spell in MM spellbook and thus it will overlap. A small change and it's perfect.

Garlodur:
I also agree that the design is really of secondary importance after the release of the faction. There is a model already which the ET have worked hard on so it does not bug out and looks unique. After all, they have chosen designs that were not directly implemented from the movie because they did not like those interpretations (thinking of Beorn and Grimbeorn here) so it may be they already find their 3.8.1 model good enough.

If at some point in the far future they feel inspired to take on this project they will have good reasons for it. But for now I don't see it necessary to wait for MM longer because some people want a new Smaug model.

AulëTheSmith:

--- Zitat von: Secret Keeper am 23. Mai 2017, 14:58 ---Back to Aules idea: I like your proposal about abilities, fit's perfectly. I would change Rank 5: “Dragon Sickness (passive) - I hope that ET will keep scavenger spell in MM spellbook and thus it will overlap. A small change and it's perfect.

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Oh yes you are right. In case of overlapping we have to think another effect of dragon sickness. A brief alternative:
Rank 5 "Dragon Sickness (passive)": the desire of gold and treasures makes Smaug very greedy, he steals resources wherever he goes. All the enemy structures in a medium range produces -30% resources.

This is probably more fitting. Because the greedy of Smaug make him selfish and he doesn't share his treasure with anyone else. So it is better a weakening of the enemy economy rather than an increasing of your own resources  ;)


--- Zitat von: Garlodur am 23. Mai 2017, 15:17 ---I also agree that the design is really of secondary importance after the release of the faction. There is a model already which the ET have worked hard on so it does not bug out and looks unique. After all, they have chosen designs that were not directly implemented from the movie because they did not like those interpretations (thinking of Beorn and Grimbeorn here) so it may be they already find their 3.8.1 model good enough.

If at some point in the far future they feel inspired to take on this project they will have good reasons for it. But for now I don't see it necessary to wait for MM longer because some people want a new Smaug model.

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I agree graphics is not as I mportant as concept. I'm anyway sure the team is able to fuse the best element of their Smaug and the movies model to create something unique Just as they did with Beorn and Grimbeorn. They look far better than 3.8.1 in my opinion :)

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