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Misty Mountains Speculations and Questions

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AulëTheSmith:

--- Zitat von: Walküre am 28. Sep 2017, 00:26 ---Many thanks to you, gentle Aulë. Seldom do I not behold and sense your ever-burning passion whenever I go through your thoughtful concepts. And, speaking about those bonds you mentioned on ModDB and the great care one pours into it, your proposals simply exemplify your noble endeavour for what you deem valuable in the game. Accept these words of praise of mine and to my response hearken: I am more than happy to give you consent (as if you need it) for the opening of a new thread, which is to be guided by nothing else but your personal judgement. I thus entrust to you the task; were you to doubt, don't hesitate to ask for counsel. I shall leave my comment at a later time :)

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Thank you very much for you kind words wise and gentle moderator.   I would certainly be honored of such task when the time will come. I think Smaug deserve his own thread in the future section "Goblin suggestions". He'll be the only great dragon in game after all.
Speaking about bonds: beside writing what I like and what I would like to see in this beautiful mod, I hope my works are one the Sparks who still ignite the fire of passion and knowledge in this forum. The forum need to be alive especially in harder times :)

About my concept I will wait your answer impatiently :)
Speaking about the spellbook and balance, with some care, I would dare to make this comparison: as for the transformation Sauron-Gorthaur available at the last row, in the same way also a spell (whatever row provided that it balanced) of the final fulfilling of Smaug's power would be fitting. Both Sauron and Smaug are powerful hero in their own way, for this reason the player have to wait more to complete them. The spellbook alternative is in fact, in both the cases, an alternative to the ring as a tool to reach the mentioned path towards power. And being the ring less used in multiplayer, I would say the spellbook it is a valid alternative :)

Fredius:

--- Zitat von: AulëTheSmith am 27. Sep 2017, 23:44 ---As i read in the old articles, the team want to make Smaug recruitable without the necessity of the One Ring. Smaug with the ring would be only a more improved version of it, both speaking about powers and drawbacks (greedy for example).
I think is reasonable to make him more ring-independent, because as i know in multiplayer matches usually the ring-heroes are not used. Would be a pity if the player cannot exploit the full-power of Smaug in multiplayer matches.
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That is exactly the unique feature of the Ring Hero mechanic; to get heroes that you otherwise can't recruit through normal means ;). Not having a fully recruitable Smaug without the Ring Hero mechanic is indeed a pity, but the same can be said about Sauron's Dark Lord form, or the Fellowship of the Ring battalion unit.

The Misty Mountains articles are very dated by the way, they were made way before a lot of huge changes of this mod. So by now anything could happen.


--- Zitat von: AulëTheSmith am 27. Sep 2017, 23:44 ---I also thought about a possible central spell of MM with a 5-6 of cost, that generally improves caves (dragon,trolls,etc) with some upgrades. In this perspective, the unlocking of Smaug could be included in such spell (without any other influence on the dragons), avoiding the waste of a total spell only for him. A central spell that is the gathering of the complete power of the horrid beasts, which are the very soul of the faction :)
The fact that the player need to also unlock some spell to have access to smaug, goes towards balance, since he will be over the average with respect to other heroes. 
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I find this a good solution. If the team wants to make him a permanent recruitable hero without the Ring Hero mechanic, then this is the idea that I agree on. You have my vote anyway xD.

AulëTheSmith:

--- Zitat ---I find this a good solution. If the team wants to make him a permanent recruitable hero without the Ring Hero mechanic, then this is the idea that I agree on. You have my vote anyway xD.
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I think the idea worth to be inserted as an alternative. In fact it was my initial idea before the creation of the stand-alone power  ;) i shall put it in my concept.
As for the ring, just few quick ideas:

- the whispers of the ring makes Smaug even more greedy: the "Dragon Sickness" becomes "Immeasurable Greediness" and now the debuff on buildings is -50%.
His desire make him even more cruel and "blind" about anything around him:  the Smaug's melee attack and elemetal damage (fire) are increased, but now also strikes allies if they're on his path.

- "Impenetrable Armor" now becomes "The golden armor": the ring reward smaug with a golden armor which covers all his body (from level 5 on, when you unlock the power, this will be visible graphically on his texture). The armour is increased to +100% against  arrows.


This last idea i've read somewhere on moddb and like it very much :) very fitting imo.

Walküre:
Well, I fall short of words in the expression of my first impression regarding the concept: it is simply bloody brilliant and marvellous!

I literally fancy almost everything that your suggestion entails, Aulë of many skills. I must first congratulate you for the daunting efforts you poured in such structured proposal; it's clearly evident and visible from any passage of the construction. Also, it was certainly not a very obvious thing that something valuable would be the outcome of our thorough discussions. And it was really a very insightful and in-depth debate, yet hard and cause of fatigues. However, you have triumphed over difficulties, gentle Aulë, and the result of your striving is honourably sound. No doubts or second thoughts about that.

Let us now, in the words of Saruman, examine what we have knowledge of: one of the stringent topics of the debate was the implementation of Smaug in a way that was worthy of the renowned smart mechanics of the Edain Mod. Not only should the very hero be included in the game via unique systems, but he needs be given more prominence in equal terms, were we to widen our sight and gaze until we consider the whole faction. This was not a very easy of a task, surely; Smaug does not partake in the common logic of the three realms (pardon the generalisation with the word realms), being him a solitary creature which prefers to act on his own and which is not much in tune with the idea of obedience either. A lone and deadly force of nature which is definitely used to lonesomeness. Therefore, in accordance with the insights that were thitherto presented to all, I really like how the concept evolved, revolving around the themes of greed, earned allegiance through tributes of gold and the special character of Smaug himself. Given the iconic importance and pervasiveness of any Edain feature, this proposal lives up to the aforementioned standards, because it devises something that complies with the lore, with the tone of the cinematographic adaptation and with that consistency at the root of faction mechanics (so that the feature is made relevant and significant for players, which is the most important goal we could set ourselves on). In conclusion, the conceptual characterisation would fare greatly, methinks. If it's possible to make it work, I feel we have eventually found a very proper solution for our needs. Although I am generally quite sceptical about tying a hero to the spellbook in such a manner, if not when it comes to exceptional cases (Sauron), I deem the concept necessary; simply said. Smaug boasts too much importance in the faction as a character and general iconic figure. Holistically, this is the system which hitherto fulfils our theories and speculations.

On a secondary note, but not lesser, I have very much appreciated that all sorts of available elements have been brought to the general attention, trying to provide in advance everything one may provide (advices, pictures, animations and so on), while leaving very little in the obscurity of doubts. Well done, indeed! I must particularly state my love for the art which has been proposed. The icons were thoughtfully conceived and that art just gives us those bits of the Hobbit trilogy that we are all fond of. Details do have their relevance! If the concept gets approved, I really hope that these images will be used for the purpose. And abilities I like too, of course. They encompass pretty much all sides of Smaug, without risking to be boring, redundant or mere replicas of the vanilla. Specifically, beside the references to the actual Hobbit, the hypnotising gaze retains the legacy of dragons in Arda and reminds us of the Elder Times of history, when the World used to have a different fashion, when foul foes would tread the ways of Middle-earth and when the immortal shires in which naught perishes were still part of the common world. The first dragons emerged from the pits of Angband during the wars between the Eldar and Morgoth, terrorising Elves, Men and Dwarves; their origin was unknown and they were equally said to have ghoulish capabilities. They appeared under a serpent-like guise and had magical powers as well, as many other demons and fell spirits in those years of agony. It is in fact reported that Glaurung, the most malicious and terrible of the Urulóki (the fire-breathing Worms of Morgoth, which are none else than the first wingless dragons) had the power to cast hypnotising spells with his wicked eyes. Moreover, Smaug is also portrayed as the deadly weapon he ought to be, for Winged Dragons appear in tales only at the last hour, amidst the utter mayhem of the War of Wrath; just to provide some facts, the arrival of such fleet of mighty beasts had even caused the Host of Valinor to retreat. The armies of Valinórë, led in battle by Eönwë, chief of the Maiar of Aman and herald of Manwë, Ancient King of Arda! As you may see, the antique lore of the past always manages to make some forays in the modernity of the Third Age. These are prime themes in the entirety of Tolkien's writings. Similarly to how we have suggested Narya being returned to Gandalf and Círdan being endowed with more lore-accurate features, connected with the ancient lore of the broad seas (Ulmo and Ossë).

Now, lest I be lost in the meanders of my narration, let us get to technicalities. Usually, new faction boards are opened after the release of said new factions. Thinking about the recent suggestions on Rivendell's spells, I truly believe that it would be wiser to start showcasing the concept at the present time, as we have enough time to leave feedback on it and perhaps polish some aspects which might need be polished. The Misty Mountains are probably still far on the horizon, yet time must be used wisely. Thus, I say this: the sooner, the better. So, dear Aulë, you have my authorisation to open an own thread in the General Suggestions. Everything is more or less finalised; nevertheless, prior to that, it would be wonderful if you managed to correct a couple of typos in the post and add Smaug's Ring form, comprising icons, abilities and the following suggestion (if you wish to include it). Speaking of which, what if Smaug were characterised by golden-toned textures, once he picks the One Ring up? An akin case to Saruman of Many Colours. We would thus have Smaug the Golden. Coming to the ending sentence: many thanks, Aulë, again. I do think that yours is a proposal worthy of being implemented :)

AulëTheSmith:

--- Zitat von: Walküre am 29. Sep 2017, 16:47 ---Well, I fall short of words in the expression of my first impression regarding the concept: it is simply bloody brilliant and marvellous!

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Sorry for the late answer Walküre, I have no words to express my gratitude for all the support: thank you very much :) :)! I sincerely didn't expect such a success of my concept. As always your judgement goes very deeply into the most important elements of the concept. For example i didn't know so much the lore about the breathing worms and they hypnotic gaze. Now i understand well why the team had such idea years ago.

Moreover, also in the movies, the power of Smaug is not only phisical, he's clearly very sharp, cunning, and smart. The best example is the one i wrote, when his powerful voice penetrates the mind of bilbo.

The spellbook implementation was a gamble for the reasons you stated: temporary summons apart, is not easy to tie an hero to the spellbook, unless he's foundamental for the faction (Sauron, Theoden). I think smaug is such an iconic figure that he deserves such a place.

You honored me with your words! Seriously! Considering also that i'm quite new here since i made the account only on April!
I shall open and guide the new thread in the general suggestions!! I'm sorry if there are some typing mistakes, sometimes i write and reread not very carefully! [ugly]
I need only some time to finalize the ring-function, which is important as well, including also the ideas i just conceived.

One last question: which one of the two via-spellbook implementation do you like the most? The stand-alone or an including in the central spell? The last one is probably most compact, and avoid the use of an entire power only for him (considering also new spellbooks having one less spell with respect to the old ones). But the first one could be much more iconic if it includes, together with Smaug, other minor fire breathing dragons. Of course both are sticked to the gold-desire content  :). 

Again: thank you very much for you kind words. I've not received so much positive feedback 'till now, not even for Durin VII (which is in the more difficult field of the dwarves discussion :D :D). I will complete the remaining parts with all the passion i have!!  xD

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