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Autor Thema: Misty Mountains Speculations and Questions  (Gelesen 80416 mal)

Odysseus

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Re: Misty Mountains Speculations and Questions
« Antwort #150 am: 23. Mai 2017, 16:27 »
Just for clarification, I did not mean to say that the Edain Smaug looked bad. I just think the darker tint that was used in the movie does a better job of portraying pure evil and that AOTR Smaug has a higher overall texture quality, especially on the face/head. I'm fine with either, in the end. I just want him to be done justice. He's MM's ring hero (currently) and I don't know if that will change, but since he still is, we can go easy on the balancing prospect. I want him to be able to burn big blobs and buildings, that's all.

I don't know if Misty Mountains will have a Mass Slayer hero by default, but I do think the 4.0 Edain interpretation makes the most sense, as being one of the, if not the strongest Mass Slayer in the game, but with less support-oriented elements compared to Sauron.

“For so sworn good or evil an oath may not be broken and it shall pursue oathkeeper and oathbreaker to the world's end.”

Fredius

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Re: Misty Mountains Speculations and Questions
« Antwort #151 am: 23. Mai 2017, 17:58 »
There is a model already which the ET have worked hard on so it does not bug out and looks unique.

I mean no offense, but isn't Edain's Smaug basically a red reskin of the vanilla summoned Dragon?



I personally do believe that an important hero such as Smaug needs a graphical overhaul as well, and I believe ET is capable to do it, but I do agree that there is no haste to it.

AulëTheSmith

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Re: Misty Mountains Speculations and Questions
« Antwort #152 am: 23. Mai 2017, 19:32 »
There is a model already which the ET have worked hard on so it does not bug out and looks unique.

I mean no offense, but isn't Edain's Smaug basically a red reskin of the vanilla summoned Dragon?



I personally do believe that an important hero such as Smaug needs a graphical overhaul as well, and I believe ET is capable to do it, but I do agree that there is no haste to it.

For sure is the base from which they crafted the current Smaug. The two are very similar I think they change colors and reshape some details. Knowing that General concept has the priority with respect to graphics, I'm however among those that think he deserves more. The team is perfectly capable to reshape the current one. At least important details like the head and armor for example, the current Smaug doesn't give so much the idea of a speaking dragon like the one of the movies: evil face, hypnotic eyes and so on.
« Letzte Änderung: 23. Mai 2017, 21:21 von AulëTheSmith »

Walküre

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Re: Misty Mountains Speculations and Questions
« Antwort #153 am: 23. Mai 2017, 21:38 »
Ah, I suspected that the ever-green debate centred on Smaug's model would haunt this thread again xD

I'm joking, obviously. All arguments and topics of significant note for the discussion should always be analysed and considered in the most thorough way. I myself have already forwarded in this thread my thoughts on the general matters involved, but I will gladly add my opinion on the most recent remarks.


I'll be quite direct now: my personal preference and likings gravitate around the AOTR Smaug, for it is quite undeniable, I guess, that it loyally mirrors the own vision of WETA, of which most of the international public are extremely fond. Smaug was in fact one of the pearls of the trilogy, if not its major jewel. Not only was the Dragon's overall role superb, but the final rendition on the very screen towered over many other characters and flaws. I wouldn't thus deem it improper, if I said that he is really something PJ and his entourage can be proud of.

Now, leaving aside personal tastes, the resemblance to the spirit of the cinematographic adaptation has always been one of the pillars of the Edain Mod and this obviously reflects on the actual game. Not all characters, sure, but not many of them have no connection whatsoever with our glorious films (apart from Angmar). In this case, the situation is even more apparent, as we are dealing with nothing more than the faction's most relevant hero, embodying the conceptual motive of an entire trilogy. Don't you think it's necessary to have a more WETA-like model? Imagine having the Necromancer, Thranduil, the Dwarven Company or the Defiler not have much in common with their cinematographic counterparts; a quite unfair and illogical eventuality. Nevertheless, albeit fantasising about it, I don't agree with the mere transposition of the AOTR concept into the Edain Mod, but some adjustments could be found, such as making the current model more robust and mightier (an impression that it doesn't give me, at the moment), alongside reworking his face. This is not a stringent priority, but it does have its importance.
« Letzte Änderung: 23. Mai 2017, 21:47 von DieWalküre »

AulëTheSmith

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Re: Misty Mountains Speculations and Questions
« Antwort #154 am: 23. Mai 2017, 22:59 »
Ah, I suspected that the ever-green debate centred on Smaug's model would haunt this thread again xD
I Apologize DieWalküre, I didn't want to start an eternal loop  :D :D  ahahaha
Anyway, even if I love the idea of a unique new design, I would focus the attention to the general concept first. So I want to know your idea about it guys, for those who didn't share it yet  ;)

Azog The Defiler

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Re: Misty Mountains Speculations and Questions
« Antwort #155 am: 18. Jun 2017, 22:52 »
Hello peeps!

So i posted this thread on how to implement the evil botfa army (the current dol guldur orcs and botfa trolls):
https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,34748.0.html

The idea is basically to implement the actual gundabad fortress for outposts and have the botfa army recruited from there, the thread is just a longer version of the idea, but what do you guys think?
I think the misty mountains is the right faction for the botfa army, along with its leaders Bolg and The Defiler (Azog:),

Elves! Men! Dwarves! The mountain will be their tomb! To war!

NoldorSithLordsShipwright

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Re: Misty Mountains Speculations and Questions
« Antwort #156 am: 24. Jun 2017, 12:22 »
Hmm, I imagine these troops would be different from the Gundabad troops recruited from a Gundabad tunnel like the Edain team originally planned?

Shagrat

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Re: Misty Mountains Speculations and Questions
« Antwort #157 am: 24. Jun 2017, 13:57 »
I was just rewatching Fellowship Of The Ring (as a matter of fact, it is paused at Lothlorien now :P), and while seeing the Cave Troll scene, I had an idea that I hope helps to spark discussion about MM again:

Cave Trolls only have their melee ability and rock-throwing ability, but... How about if, when Bolg is recruited and the Misty Mountains armies start to become organized, Cave Trolls unlock an option to either have the mace or the trident that we see in FOTR, earning new advantages if they unlock them, at the cost of their rock-throwing ability?

I've not made a deep concept, but I hope it can spark discussion!

the trident though was only used by the troll after Aragorn had stabbed it into the Trolls chest. It never was a weapon the troll had with him when he entered the Chamber of Marzabul.

It was at the Survivor Series that the dark path of the Undertaker was born. It seems like an eternity ago that the demons of hell passed judgement on the mortal world and unleashed a creature of the night so powerful that the mention of it's very name sends shivers down to the spines of who oppose him
You look into the eyes of the Reaper and you'll see that your fate is sealed!

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Walküre

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Re: Misty Mountains Speculations and Questions
« Antwort #158 am: 24. Jun 2017, 22:07 »
I'm not very sure, but wasn't the trident an abandoned weapon in that hall, that Aragorn then wielded to hit the troll? If this is the case, the trident nonetheless belongs to Moria and could well be one of the troll's choices. Also, I know that this was the motive of BFME2, but raiding and pillaging others' warfare material/armoury is an interesting theme of the Goblins. The very structures of Moria are Dwarven buildings in ruin, captured by the Orcs.

Shagrat

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Re: Misty Mountains Speculations and Questions
« Antwort #159 am: 24. Jun 2017, 22:19 »
I'm not very sure, but wasn't the trident an abandoned weapon in that hall, that Aragorn then wielded to hit the troll? If this is the case, the trident nonetheless belongs to Moria and could well be one of the troll's choices. Also, I know that this was the motive of BFME2, but raiding and pillaging others' warfare material/armoury is an interesting theme of the Goblins. The very structures of Moria are Dwarven buildings in ruin, captured by the Orcs.
yes it was an abandoned weapon, but the only reason it even apepared in themovie, imho, was that Frodo had to be impaled since he had been by the Orc-Chieftain in the book.

I doubt that the troll would normaly use a trident... why should he? Using the hammer he can deal farmore damage on a far bigger area... or with a tree he ripped out of the ground etc. the Trident really is a weapon I don't see fitting for a troll

It was at the Survivor Series that the dark path of the Undertaker was born. It seems like an eternity ago that the demons of hell passed judgement on the mortal world and unleashed a creature of the night so powerful that the mention of it's very name sends shivers down to the spines of who oppose him
You look into the eyes of the Reaper and you'll see that your fate is sealed!

Sollten Banner und Avatar nicht Synchron sein, einfach mal mit Strg + F5 aktualisiern

Leiter des HdR-Matchup-Threads

Glorfindel23

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Re: Misty Mountains Speculations and Questions
« Antwort #160 am: 24. Jun 2017, 22:48 »
Zitat
yes it was an abandoned weapon, but the only reason it even apepared in themovie, imho, was that Frodo had to be impaled since he had been by the Orc-Chieftain in the book.

I doubt that the troll would normaly use a trident... why should he? Using the hammer he can deal farmore damage on a far bigger area... or with a tree he ripped out of the ground etc. the Trident really is a weapon I don't see fitting for a troll

I agree I don't see the Trident as a weapon for a troll

Walküre

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Re: Misty Mountains Speculations and Questions
« Antwort #161 am: 24. Jun 2017, 22:57 »
But that trident gives also the sense of a very loose and run-down weapon, which is normally used for hunting. It seems to be fitting for the whole wild context of the faction of which trolls are a part. It is also an abandoned item, that the beast decides to pick up and wield as a normal weapon, to ensure that the maximum damage be dealt. And that trident is indeed a more threatening menace than a simple blade. It might be implemented as an ability, be it temporary or not, in order to differentiate mountainous trolls; together with the fact that it could represent a tribute to FOTR. And I believe that the first chapter of the trilogy does deserve the utmost amount of tributes in the game.

Julio229

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Re: Misty Mountains Speculations and Questions
« Antwort #162 am: 24. Jun 2017, 23:59 »
I think the trident could have a special purpose. Just like the hammer would be used to destroy masses of soldiers, the trident could be used by the troll to deal massive damage to particular units. That gives the troll a lot of purposes: He has his melee attack, his rock-throwing ability as a ranged weapon, the trunk as a low effectiveness weapon, and once Bolg has organized the armies of the Misty Mountains, they would get a chance to get the mace/hammer as a weapon to further improve their mass-slaying abilities, and the trident as a way to have a more damage dealing weapon that hits few (or only one) targets.

It would also reflect that aspect of the wild that DieWälkure said, it is really fitting that the Trolls of the MM would pick up whatever was at their disposal as a quick way to deal a lot of damage, the trident wasn't intended as a combat weapon, but they will use it in that way, because I think that's one of the main appeals of the Misty Mountains: going from a disorganized rabble that uses scavenged weapons but aren't quite a real army yet, to become a fully organized army under the command of Bolg that makes the most of the weapons and armor they took from others, and becoming a dreadful army that still uses what they happen to find, being totally different from the other armies of Middle-Earth.


Walküre

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Re: Misty Mountains Speculations and Questions
« Antwort #163 am: 25. Jun 2017, 00:10 »
Exactly. I back your points, Julio. I would also add that using the trident as a moderate hero-killer feature could be interesting. A special ability of cavern trolls. Yes, they are cavern trolls; I apologise, as I referred to the other kind in my previous post. I was talking about cavern trolls, of course :)

I would find such property really interesting. As Aragorn says, that trident would have slain and passed through a boar. At least, this is what he says in the Italian version ;)

AulëTheSmith

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Re: Misty Mountains Speculations and Questions
« Antwort #164 am: 25. Jun 2017, 02:03 »
I would find such property really interesting. As Aragorn says, that trident would have slain and passed through a boar. At least, this is what he says in the Italian version ;)

I can confirm DieWalküre the Italian translation is loyal to the original script  :). Anyway I like the idea. In general we cannot consider a cavern troll as a creature fond to particular weapon as men, elves, dwarves could be :). They consider it more like a temporary tool. I don't see any bad if a troll can switch between different so to say "raw" temporary weapons, especially if we are talking about MM. And of course the damage shouldn't be so high :  they pick up  random objects but they are not well trained creatures. The trident could be a good way to deal good damage against heroes (as a parallelism with the sword of the mountain trolls of Mordor, which are instead well trained and deal very high damage).

if you look at the sequence, you can notice that the troll try to whip legolas using its own chain, as second example :D.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lfOnQD8Qif4
« Letzte Änderung: 25. Jun 2017, 11:34 von AulëTheSmith »