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Autor Thema: Tower Guard and Citadel Guard  (Gelesen 15621 mal)

witch_king_26

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Tower Guard and Citadel Guard
« am: 26. Mai 2016, 18:45 »
Hello Edain team. (I am somewhat new to modding union and if this is in the wrong place i am sorry) Anyway my proposition is to make the tower guards the elite of gondor, and rename them fountain guard, and the citadel guard replace the fountain guard. My reason for this is because lorewise the fountain guard were the elite of the elite of Gondor. While the citadel guard were only elite. One problem might be the citadel guards dont have shields. Well if you look in the movie of the Return of the King when the fountain guard are shown if u look behind you can see some type of Gondor soldier with shields. I would assume this would be citadel guard because they are on the top level of the city. Plus you can also see the fountain guard have no shield. So if you could just swap this around i think it would be more accurate to the lore of LOTR. If it is too hard or complicated for other reasons that is fine! It is probably the best mod i have ever played!  ;)

dgsgomes

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Re: Tower Guard and Citadel Guard
« Antwort #1 am: 27. Mai 2016, 14:31 »

+1

Fine

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Re: Tower Guard and Citadel Guard
« Antwort #2 am: 27. Mai 2016, 15:38 »
This is probably derived from the time of BFME I where there were no citadel guards at all - only "Tower Guards" (who were modeled look-wise after the Fountain Guards of the White Tree. With Edain Mod adding the Citadel Guard to Gondor's roster, the decision was made to make them the heroic elites instead of the Fountain Guards.
Lore-wise, you are correct: the Fountain Guards are the top elites of Gondor. So while this change wouldn't be my top priority (I'd rather want to see the Team work on the two missing factions, and possibly on entirely new ones after that), I'd still support this change.
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Idrial12

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Re: Tower Guard and Citadel Guard
« Antwort #3 am: 28. Mai 2016, 11:09 »
+1 I agree
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lordoflinks

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Re: Tower Guard and Citadel Guard
« Antwort #4 am: 28. Mai 2016, 11:13 »
I agree
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Glorfindel23

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Re: Tower Guard and Citadel Guard
« Antwort #5 am: 28. Mai 2016, 12:32 »
The Guards of the Fountains are already in the game I think the edain team is already working in this units. ;)

Look :

witch_king_26

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Re: Tower Guard and Citadel Guard
« Antwort #6 am: 28. Mai 2016, 19:45 »
Yes they have tower guard in the game but they are not the hero units of Gondor, the citadel guards are. My suggestion was to swap them and give the tower guard the name fountain guard and take away their shields and give the citadel guard shields.

Draco100000

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Re: Tower Guard and Citadel Guard
« Antwort #7 am: 28. Mai 2016, 20:55 »
It also would be a great way to make gondor late game even stronger....wait they are already the strongest. I do not agree because if this happens make dol amroth would be pointless. Dol amroth offers the unique sword based elite unit of gondor, so they are the best "dps" in melee combat just behind heroic ones in the entire faction.
So i cant  agree with this because terms of balance.
But in terms of gameplay and enjoyability I  agree, ok this is strange isnt it? :D

LordDainIronfoot

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Re: Tower Guard and Citadel Guard
« Antwort #8 am: 6. Jun 2016, 13:52 »
If I am not mistaken,in the Books there were not Fountain Guard and Citadel Guard or Tower Guard,but rather they were the same Elite Unit but one part were assigned to Guard th Fountain the other to Guard the King or the Steward! :-) But the Movie and Game made them two separate Units for which I  am damn glad because they both look magnificent and cool. Although I would suggest some Cosmetic Changes...

For instance they should get the quality of all new Edain Models which are simply epic

Another thing is that I think Citadel Guard need some Shoulder Armor and a Shield! :-)
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lord_ellessar

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Re: Tower Guard and Citadel Guard
« Antwort #9 am: 27. Sep 2016, 01:25 »
I agree

Éomer Éadig

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Re: Tower Guard and Citadel Guard
« Antwort #10 am: 11. Apr 2017, 11:15 »
I like this idea.

@Draco100000, I really do not understand how this would change the game balance in any way. It would just be a visual change, nothing more. So I do not understand your comment.
« Letzte Änderung: 11. Apr 2017, 12:06 von Éomer Éadig »

FilipGeorg95

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Re: Tower Guard and Citadel Guard
« Antwort #11 am: 5. Jan 2018, 15:59 »
As for that you have my vote. Considering their importance as strong defensive unit, I would propose an active ability at level 3: "Guardians of the Fountain" that can result in making a castle/camp fountain invulnerable for several time during defensive battle in order to give a closer touch with their name and their role as defenders

Walküre

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Re: Tower Guard and Citadel Guard
« Antwort #12 am: 5. Jan 2018, 16:22 »
I recently played with Gondor and I watched the films too. And this precise suggestion struck my mind indeed, because I also recall another similar suggestion being forwarded in the past. And I find it a just proposal, really. Lore-wise, it makes absolute sense and is based on the very depiction from the cinematographic adaptation.

Apart from gameplay, the challenging aspect of the idea encompasses graphics, albeit the graphical department having returned active after harder times.

AulëTheSmith

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Re: Tower Guard and Citadel Guard
« Antwort #13 am: 5. Jan 2018, 20:38 »
I recently played with Gondor and I watched the films too. And this precise suggestion struck my mind indeed, because I also recall another similar suggestion being forwarded in the past. And I find it a just proposal, really. Lore-wise, it makes absolute sense and is based on the very depiction from the cinematographic adaptation.

Apart from gameplay, the challenging aspect of the idea encompasses graphics, albeit the graphical department having returned active after harder times.

I always thought that they have much more the aspect of heroic units rather than elite. Their robes (cloak in particular) and armor give the idea of redoubtable and also noble warriors at the same time.



 I think a retexturing of the model shouldn't be so hard for the new graphical deparment, given what they presented to us  ;)

Slawek56703

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Re: Tower Guard and Citadel Guard
« Antwort #14 am: 6. Jan 2018, 02:42 »
Yes , please swap name and role between Citadel Guard (currently Heroic unit) and Tower Guards which are the true Minas Tirith Citadel Guards . When u look at helmets of both units you know which is from Gondor and which one is from the past .

+1

I wonder what German part of the community think about this , also new topic about this would be nice too ...


Walküre

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Re: Tower Guard and Citadel Guard
« Antwort #15 am: 6. Jan 2018, 14:12 »
I might translate the proposal in German, if I have time. It won't be a very difficult of a task to bring this brief suggestion to the other forum.

Besides, I'm very pleased that the thread has been revived. It was worth it and in tune with the forthcoming wind of differentiation, blowing afar on the horizon we may all behold ;)

EpicTslayer

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Re: Tower Guard and Citadel Guard
« Antwort #16 am: 25. Jan 2018, 17:48 »
I absolutely agree with the Cosmetic change, as the Fountain guards look better without shields then the Citadel Guards do. Also, it is more fitting Lorewise

Glorfindel23

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Re: Tower Guard and Citadel Guard
« Antwort #17 am: 26. Jan 2018, 11:18 »
Like I said before, If the edain team is interested I can send them my models:

The tower guard one is light and will not make the game slow down


The Citadel guard model is a big model but as we know there is only 15 citadel guards max at time in game. So this will also not make the game slow down.


Moreover, they will not need to change a lot of things in the ini files because I use the same animation that the original edain model.

Walküre

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Re: Tower Guard and Citadel Guard
« Antwort #18 am: 26. Jan 2018, 12:00 »
I cannot say nor foretell whether these models might actually find a place in the Edain Mod, but I do want to point out that I sincerely think that they're overall great pieces of art, in my opinion. And I myself advocate the need for this unit switch in the faction for the said reasons.

Odysseus

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Re: Tower Guard and Citadel Guard
« Antwort #19 am: 26. Jan 2018, 16:04 »
I also agree that these look much improved. I would love it if Edain made use of these.
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Garlodur

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Re: Tower Guard and Citadel Guard
« Antwort #20 am: 29. Jan 2018, 14:07 »
Hi everyone,

A long time ago, probably around the time when I first saw this topic, I came up with a couple of suggestions to fix the situation of Citadel and Fountain Guards. I created a couple of options, as well as suggesting a new ability to make the heroic unit slightly more interesting.

Here's the link https://docs.google.com/document/d/11YU5P8NMjoSkR3sUE2OfI4GafTlXklJlBuYaHbWU0Rw/edit?usp=sharing

Please tell me what you think. I hope the overview makes it clearer for members to share their thoughts.

Mr.Todd

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Re: Tower Guard and Citadel Guard
« Antwort #21 am: 1. Okt 2018, 16:00 »
Hello everyone, I was wondering something about the guardians of the citadel. Don't you think their ability is now too similar to Beregrond's? The ability "defend builidings" is exactly the same as Beregrond "Savior" ability at level 8, I have the feeling that the capacity is no longer unique, perhaps it would be interesting to make them different.

NoldorSithLordsShipwright

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Re: Tower Guard and Citadel Guard
« Antwort #22 am: 2. Okt 2018, 03:46 »
Beregond's ability is considerably more powerful, being able to target all allied buildings (and eventually heroes) in range while the Citadel Guard can target only one building at a time. As Beregond is a member of the Citadel Guard, I think it's thematically appropriate.

dgsgomes

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Re: Tower Guard and Citadel Guard
« Antwort #23 am: 30. Okt 2019, 03:55 »
I have to say that I've been thinking these days about how the Fountain/Tower Guards and Citadel Guards roles are switched in Edain, and i'd like to revive this discussion, as I think that it would surely enhance the playing experience even further :)

Isildurs Fluch

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Re: Tower Guard and Citadel Guard
« Antwort #24 am: 31. Okt 2019, 12:46 »
I am so used to the roles being this way, I actually never thought about it  :D
But it´s true: the Tower Guards are the unit, which looks much more like the heroic unit. I don´t even think there needs to be a huge balance change, when the roles are simply swapped. And it gives us the opportunity to think about new abilities  8-)
The Tower Guards could keep their shield and the shieldwall ability, but could also have a weapon switch to sword and a different ability if equipped (maybe bonus damage next to your own buildings).
The Citadel Guards would lose their switch and would play the role as heavy spears. They should get a formation aiming to fit in with the new central spell. I thought about a long line giving them bonus damage against cavalry but less so against infantry.
Ersatz für die Elchreiter:
https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,35514.0.html

Berittene Schützen für Imladris:
https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,35515.0.html


Vielen Dank an CMG für Avatar und Banner...

Gnomi

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Re: Tower Guard and Citadel Guard
« Antwort #25 am: 31. Okt 2019, 13:25 »
Zitat
The Tower Guards could keep their shield and the shieldwall ability, but could also have a weapon switch to sword and a different ability if equipped (maybe bonus damage next to your own buildings).
There are no fitting animations for such switches.

dgsgomes

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Re: Tower Guard and Citadel Guard
« Antwort #26 am: 31. Okt 2019, 17:00 »
I'd rather make a more simple change: just switch the units' design and think of new abilities for the new heroic unit;

For the new Citadel Guard, they would have the same animation, formation and role of the old Gondor Fountain/Tower Guard; it would only require adding the shield to it's design.

For the new Gondor Fountain/Tower Guard, they would have the same animation and role as the old Citadel Guard, but without the shield (as it's supposed to be); it would only require having new abilities, such as:
- Level 1 - Fountain Guard - the Fountain Guards will vigorously defend Gondor's realm - the selected building will have a 25% armor boost and the Fountain Guards will have a 50% damage and armor boost for 30 seconds;
- Level 5 - Duty of the Tower Guards - the intrepid Tower Guards fight valiantly to protect the heroes of Gondor - heroes near the Tower Guards have +10% armor +5% additional armor per each additional battalion with this ability up to a 20% armor boost (passive ability).

What do you think? :)

Only True Witchking

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Re: Tower Guard and Citadel Guard
« Antwort #27 am: 31. Okt 2019, 18:20 »
I must say that from a lore- and gameplay-perspective, I don't mind how it is currently, since Tower Guard, Citadel Guard and Fountain Guard are all the same and in-game their abilities fit to the roles they have been assigned.

From a visual standpoint however, I do agree that giving the heroic unit the movie's "Fountain Guard" look (I found a fountain guard model in the worldbuilder, but it's unfinished) and giving the current Citadel Guard model to the elite unit would look better overall.
The names could stay the same or be changed, I wouldn't mind in either case.

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Isildurs Fluch

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Re: Tower Guard and Citadel Guard
« Antwort #28 am: 1. Nov 2019, 16:32 »
I'd rather make a more simple change: just switch the units' design and think of new abilities for the new heroic unit;

For the new Citadel Guard, they would have the same animation, formation and role of the old Gondor Fountain/Tower Guard; it would only require adding the shield to it's design.

For the new Gondor Fountain/Tower Guard, they would have the same animation and role as the old Citadel Guard, but without the shield (as it's supposed to be); it would only require having new abilities, such as:
- Level 1 - Fountain Guard - the Fountain Guards will vigorously defend Gondor's realm - the selected building will have a 25% armor boost and the Fountain Guards will have a 50% damage and armor boost for 30 seconds;
- Level 5 - Duty of the Tower Guards - the intrepid Tower Guards fight valiantly to protect the heroes of Gondor - heroes near the Tower Guards have +10% armor +5% additional armor per each additional battalion with this ability up to a 20% armor boost (passive ability).
Sounds good to me  :)
Only thing I could critisize is, that some people might miss the sfieldwall-formation.
Would the Citadel-Guards keep their weapon-switch as elite?
Ersatz für die Elchreiter:
https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,35514.0.html

Berittene Schützen für Imladris:
https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,35515.0.html


Vielen Dank an CMG für Avatar und Banner...

dgsgomes

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Re: Tower Guard and Citadel Guard
« Antwort #29 am: 1. Nov 2019, 17:14 »
I did not mean to remove the shieldwall formation, this ability should be kept; the only necessary thing to do is give the NEW citadel guard (which will take the role of the OLD tower guard) the OLD tower guard's shield so they can use the formation  :)

No, I did not propose for the NEW tower guards (now as heroic units) to have a weapon switch, as it could possibly not fit very well visually, but of course this can be discussed - I am personally indifferent about keeping the weapon switch  :P

Glorfindel23

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Re: Tower Guard and Citadel Guard
« Antwort #30 am: 2. Nov 2019, 16:25 »
Hi all!
I don't know if that could give a little inspiration, but if you're interested I myself have a concept in progress for my Edain Submod. If someone here would like to use or to modify some piece of that concept for the current edain I would be happy to help ^^

Note that in my submod, this concept will only be used in some map like Minas Tirith where the player will be opposed to many attackers, thing which explain why I made them so powerful. But I think this can easily be balanced (making them more difficult to recruit or limiting the maximum number of hordes at time)..

Here the link of the article :
https://www.moddb.com/mods/glorfindel23-submod/news/spellbooks-in-minas-tirith
I alos write it in modding union (click on Minas Tirith): https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,34833.0.html
« Letzte Änderung: 2. Nov 2019, 16:32 von Glorfindel23 »

dgsgomes

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Re: Tower Guard and Citadel Guard
« Antwort #31 am: 4. Nov 2019, 11:01 »
Your Tower Guard model is very nice! I don't know what is the policy of the Edain Team concerning using other people's authorized models, but your model definitely could be used somehow  :)

joelockard

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Re: Tower Guard and Citadel Guard
« Antwort #32 am: 29. Aug 2020, 14:44 »
I know I'm late at this but I support this proposal. agree that the current Tower Guards deserve and should be the heroic unit of Gondor while the current Citadel Guards will take over the role of elite pikemen and getting shields. They could even keep the names and just swap the designs although Fountain Guards or Guardians of the White Tree sounds more fitting should they switch roles. Going by the films, we can clearly see that the Fountain Guards' design is more unique and fitting for a cream-of-the-crop type unit in Gondor's roster. Meanwhile the armor design of the Citadel Guards do not differ that much from regular Gondor infantry except for the cape and shield.





I'm not sure how the Fountain Guards would look if they were to be able to toggle between sword and spear but my guess is many players wouldn't mind. I don't think many would mind either if they lose the toggle stance and become a heroic pikemen unit but capable enough to take on basic and elite swords men (similar to the Cirith Ungol Halberdiers).