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Autor Thema: New Angmar Ringhero  (Gelesen 4821 mal)

Offline The_Necromancer0

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Re: New Angmar Ringhero
« Antwort #30 am: 2. Jan 2017, 16:03 »
Furthering this proposal has been a wish of mine for quite a while now, I've already expressed my support to it but I was never able to expand it. Today, we change that. This project has a lot of my love because of how few Ring Heroes the forces of Evil have in comparison to the forces of Good, in addition it seems logical since Angmar is meant to oppose Arnor for it to have a secondary ring hero. And Mornamarth just feels perfect because of his backstory, which by the way if I could read German would have read entirely.

Zitat
For his part, Mornamarth burns to rule Angmar himself one day, but for now he bides his time and builds his power by destroying Angmar's enemies

I don't know for everybody else but that and the previous line just screams: POTENTIAL RING HERO! Like really really loudly, so here are my thoughts:

Mornamarth, King of Carn Dum
At last, the patience of Mornamarth is rewarded, he now wields the One Ring, the source of his master's power. A power he can now use at his leisure, and his first action is to break the leash that the Witch-King had kept him in all this time. Using the element of surprise, he casts down the rule of his master and takes the Iron Crown for himself. The Dark Dunedain, always seeking power, follow their new king as easily as they followed their previous master but the wights and werewolves who were tied to Angmar only by the Witch-King's magic regain their free will and flee (becoming unrecruitable). The Hillmen are more reluctant to follow the one they call usurper and who cares little for them in comparison to their previous master, they are less fear resistant, no longer provide a buff to the Dunedain and are permanently debuffed. The Dunedain are rewarded for their allegiance and are now trained with basic upgrades. Mornamarth gain reworked/boosted abilities fit for his rank as Lord of Angmar and perhaps some additional skin features. He is also instantly level 10.

Wielding the Ring
Wielding the Ring and betraying the Witch-King is not without risk and while Mornamarth has managed to cast down his master and send him back to Mordor it is only a matter of time before he returns. Mornamarth is on a timer and when it runs out the Witch-King will have returned and hunted him down (aka he dies), also if the Witch-King had been recruited previously he returns from the border of the map once the timer runs out with an army from Mordor to subdue him, at this point two different thing can happen, either the Witch-King arrives from the border of the map with a small elite detachment from Mordor, a couple trolls, some black uruks, upgraded Morgul Archers, maybe some Morgul knights or he spawn in front of his base and the army is merely a couple of slave units who protect the base. If he is not recruited when Mornamarth takes the Ring then instead he simply can no longer be recruited.

Betraying the Witch-King also means that the units that were under his controlled are now released and heroes that were loyal to him flee the fortress only to return when their master does the same, can no longer be recruited (in addition, units recruited will die and heroes will vanish for the time being):
  • Werewolf
  • Wights
  • Zaphragor
  • Witch-King
  • Karsh
  • Durmath
  • Sorcerers

Once the time runs out all stats will return to normal, except for Men of Carn Dum who will suffer a temporary debuff. Mornamarth can be recruited regularly once again but I feel there should be some downside, maybe he comes back half the level or decreased stats?

Abilities
Level 1: Lust for Dominion - Mornamarth has gained the power he has always sought, but a man like him can never be truly satisfied. He now hunger for more land and more people to rule, to extend his empire even further he stays behind the lines and powers up his troops channeling the power of the One Ring into his allies. However his ambition is a double edged sword, with his eye set on his prize he tends to neglect his troops, sometimes even harming them by channeling too much power into too few units.
  • At least 5: +60% damage to the Men of Carn Dum but -30% armor
  • At least 15: +55% damage to the Men of Carn Dum but -15% armor
  • At least 25: +50% damage to the Men of Carn Dum
  • At least 35: +45% damage to the Men of Carn Dum and +15% armor
  • At least 45: +40% damage to the Men of Carn Dum and +30% armor

Level 3: River of Blood and Iron - Mornamarth no longer wishes to endanger himself, his regular attacks (allowed by this passive) unleashes a single blade of blood from afar (red flood) who deal heavy damage and knockback nearby troops. If fought in melee he will use his weapons to destroy the enemy. If activated it will allow him to draw upon the nearby forces, interrupting Lust for Dominion for 15 seconds and unleashing a wave of blood in a direction, this will slow all unit/heroes it hits and reduce the production speed of buildings in addition to dealing damage

Level 5: Brand of the One - Mornamarth links the strength of a battalion to the One Ring feeding them more power, they gain more damage and nearby units gain additional armor. Mornamarth can also sacrifice them anytime to regain health, if Mornamarth dies all battalions bound to the One Ring will die.

Level 7: Edict of the King - The selected Hall of King's Men, in addition to faster and cheaper recruitment now gives basic upgrades (heavy armor and banner carrier) to the Men of Carn Dum. The discount now affects the heroic units.

Level 10: Overwhelming Siege - Similar effect to cruel assault (Allied units in target area gain triple damage, +25% movement speed and are invulnerable for 30 seconds.) In addition, all units gain knock back attacks, upon death deal fire damage to nearby units and cannot be knocked back(just in case invulnerability doesn't already cover that).

In summary, Mornamarth is now a stronger units supporter and in addition gains some minor mass slaying power. The variety of units is more restricted, taking away one of Angmar strength but the Men of Carn Dum can be trained in larger numbers faster and cheaper. Using the ring's power Mornamarth shapes Angmar into the elitist faction he see it as.

Latest Changes (Important to Read)
-Heroes and Units recruitment will no longer be restricted.
-Ring Hero Witch King gains additional abilities debuffing abilities:
-Additional active abilities should be given to WK
« Letzte Änderung: 17. Jan 2017, 20:10 von The_Necromancer0 »
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Offline OakenShield224

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Re: New Angmar Ringhero
« Antwort #31 am: 2. Jan 2017, 19:16 »
Necro's idea sounds really good for adding a new Ring Hero to Angmar. However, there must be some element of choice in this and, right now, Ring Hero Witch King barely changes from his normal form. The only effect of the change is that enemy buildings work a lot slower. The Edain Team have said that they want the Witch King's main impact to be of a bitter, depleting winter instead of a mass slayer.

Winter would have a much larger impact on an enemy force. Mobility would be decreased by the snow. There would be psychological effects that would prevent people from performing certain tasks and slow down their thinking. In extreme cold, people would lose their limbs due to frostbite. There are quite a few examples in history of armies failing in cold conditions. Also, these effects can be seen in Middle Earth. For example, the Fellowship was completely slowed down by all of the snow in Caradhras until they had to retreat. Frodo almost loses consciousness until he is dragged out by Boromir. Also, think of the loses the elves took on the Helcaraxe during the First Age.

With this in mind, I would like to improve Ring Hero Witch King's passive to have a deadly winter in mind. All enemy units and heroes across the map would have a 15% reduction in movement speed and attack speed. All enemy heroes have reduced heal rates and increased cool downs(to represent psychological effects). The Witch King would be the centre of the cold and so the above effects would be increased when around him. Any units or heroes around the Witch King that have less than 20% health would be passively damaged. This would affect units that leave his presence as well for a small amount of time. This is to represent frostbite which would have a larger impact on the weak.

Overall, in addition to the current passives, all enemy units and heroes across the map would have a 15% decrease in movement and attack speed. All enemy heroes would have reduced heal rates and increased cool downs. These effects are increased when close to the Witch King. Any units or heroes close to the Witch King with less than 20% health are passively damaged.

What do you all think?

Offline Julio229

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Re: New Angmar Ringhero
« Antwort #32 am: 3. Jan 2017, 13:38 »
I agree with both Necro and Oakenshield's suggestions, Mornamarth as a Ring Hero would really fit, and the concept Necro proposed is so good! Oakenshield's idea for buffing Ring Hero Witch-King is also great, and would add, like he said, an element of choice to the use of the Ring to the strategy in general. You can choose Mornamarth and focus on the men of Carn Dûm, or choosing WK and focusing on the debuffs that Angmar is famous for :P.

 It would also be the only evil faction with two Ring Heroes (aside from different forms), like Gondor and Arnor being the only good ones with two Heroes (and the timer makes Mornamarth somewhat of an evil counterpart to Boromir, i think).


Offline Elite KryPtik

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Re: New Angmar Ringhero
« Antwort #33 am: 3. Jan 2017, 15:17 »
While I do like these ideas, the Witch King is superior in every way to Mornamarth with the things that Thorin suggested. Nobody would every go with Mornamarth when you can globally debuff the enemy.
Arise! Arise, Riders of Theoden! Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter! Spear shall be shaken! Shield shall be splintered! A sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now! Ride now! Ride, ride to ruin, and the worlds ending! FORTH EORLINGAS!

Offline OakenShield224

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Re: New Angmar Ringhero
« Antwort #34 am: 3. Jan 2017, 16:00 »
I'm not sure...being able to recruit Dark Dunedain cheaply with free upgrades sounds powerful. The passives are very strong and Mornamarth even gains some good mass slaying abilities. He would be designed to support Carn Dum, so people would probably go for him if their strategy is focused on Carn Dum. Witch King would be used if the player has a much more varied army. Also, Mornamarth is much cheaper than Witch King so he can be used as Ring Hero much earlier in the game (like with Boromir and Gandalf).

If you want to make Mornamarth a better choice then there are a few things that could be done. I'm assuming that Lust for Dominion is only in a radius around Mornamarth but it could be activated to affect a much larger radius or even the whole map. Helegwen would be one of the only heroes that follow Mornamarth, so she could have a power increase as a reward. Maybe the effects of her arrow types could be increased (so Freezing Arrows might slow attack speed as well as movement speed or the effects of ice arrows could last longer than 5 seconds). If the heroic units are affected by Mornamarth, then Durmarth should be buffed by Mornamarth in some way as well.

Also, what would happen to Draugluin, Gulzar and Hwaldar if Mornamarth takes the Ring?

Offline Julio229

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Re: New Angmar Ringhero
« Antwort #35 am: 3. Jan 2017, 17:46 »
I think Drauglin would stay, as he is now a mindless hunter, if I remember correctly. Hwaldar would stay, as the Rhudaur Men would continue serving Mornamarth, and I think Gulzar would be gone, as he is the High Sorcerer and owes his power to the Witch King (As his backstory in the German RPG forum said).

Offline Elite KryPtik

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Re: New Angmar Ringhero
« Antwort #36 am: 3. Jan 2017, 17:56 »
I'm not sure...being able to recruit Dark Dunedain cheaply with free upgrades sounds powerful. The passives are very strong and Mornamarth even gains some good mass slaying abilities. He would be designed to support Carn Dum, so people would probably go for him if their strategy is focused on Carn Dum. Witch King would be used if the player has a much more varied army. Also, Mornamarth is much cheaper than Witch King so he can be used as Ring Hero much earlier in the game (like with Boromir and Gandalf).

Going for anything other than Men of Carn Dum is useless on the current patch. The only viable strategy is to go for Rhudaur at first, then transition to Men of Carn Dum. Getting a small discount to their price is worthless compared to a globbal debuff on the enemy, because you can still get men of carn dum while that debuff is happening, making you even stronger. Plus, you can still get a discount using Mornamarth ordinarily as it is.
Arise! Arise, Riders of Theoden! Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter! Spear shall be shaken! Shield shall be splintered! A sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now! Ride now! Ride, ride to ruin, and the worlds ending! FORTH EORLINGAS!

Offline OakenShield224

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Re: New Angmar Ringhero
« Antwort #37 am: 3. Jan 2017, 21:37 »
Going for anything other than Men of Carn Dum is useless on the current patch. The only viable strategy is to go for Rhudaur at first, then transition to Men of Carn Dum. Getting a small discount to their price is worthless compared to a globbal debuff on the enemy, because you can still get men of carn dum while that debuff is happening, making you even stronger. Plus, you can still get a discount using Mornamarth ordinarily as it is.
Mornamarth's current discount is 25% and doesn't include heroic units. In order to make him viable as Ring Hero, this discount would need to be increased. Also, Necro's proposal would apply for heroic units and also gives them free upgrades, saving even more money. Add the very good leadership, Brand of the One for more bonuses, Overwhelming Siege, and potential bonuses for Helegwen and Durmarth. With all of this, you'd have an incredibly strong support hero (and that's even before you consider his mass slaying skills that would be added).

The only heroes that support Carn Dum in any way are Mornamarth and Helegwen (buffing the archers). If you are saying that Carn Dum is the only viable strategy for Angmar in the current patch, then wouldn't buffing the only real support hero for Carn Dum be a good idea?

Offline Elite KryPtik

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Re: New Angmar Ringhero
« Antwort #38 am: 3. Jan 2017, 23:22 »
It would, but Mornamarth would still be able to buff them if Witch King took the Ring, plus the Witch King's debuff. Add to that that Men of Carn Dum are really strong to begin with, and the heroes that you wouldn't be able to recruit any longer when Mornamarth takes the ring, with Necro's concept, and it just makes more logical sense to get the Witch King for the global debuff. Like I said, I'm all for a 2nd Ring Hero, but it should be an even tradeoff, whereas with the concepts so far it just makes more sense to get Witch King. I personally don't really have any ideas for this, I'm just giving you the opinion of somebody who plays PvP regularly and knows the strengths of the faction :)
Arise! Arise, Riders of Theoden! Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter! Spear shall be shaken! Shield shall be splintered! A sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now! Ride now! Ride, ride to ruin, and the worlds ending! FORTH EORLINGAS!

Offline Slawek56703

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Re: New Angmar Ringhero
« Antwort #39 am: 4. Jan 2017, 01:22 »
Personally i think only Angmar from all evil Factions have a capability to get second ring hero.This need to be more complex i think affecting whole faction.For the time Mornamarth is Ring Hero those building can't recruit troops nor do any other action if they are build otherwise player cant build them :Barrow,Tower of Sorcery upgrade,Barrow Witht Lair,Temple of Twiligh.Hall of Kings of Man instantly get level 3.
WitchKing is the only hero that cant be recruited if Mornamarth gets ring otherwise , he dies and can'r be respawned for the time Mornamarth have ring.Other Heroes gets rewarded for staying with thier new lord. Thier abilities recharge 50% faster .Rhudaur and orcs are forced to work with Mornamarth. The have not easy time INSERT IDEA HERE HELP ME WITH EFFECT Player no longer can recruit Thral Master but Orcs are avivable in Orc Camp ,Rhudaur Spearman and Axe Throwers Are avivable in Hillman Village they are free . Mornamarth want only his boys in Man of Carn Dum.
Carn Dum units come in from thier building in 15 guys including Shadow Guards and Black Knights.Carn Dum Archers,Soldier and Pikeman are recruited with upgrades and level 5 including Shadow Guards and Knights . Garrison Tower provide 60% faster recruitment instead of 30% and works on Shadow Guards and Black Knights too .Carn Dum standart units get improved abilites .
 Duelist is passive ability
 Punish ability reflect back 40% damage (2x more)
 Focused Barrage passive is improved and not only provide double speed attack but also damage too

Shadow Guards and Black Knights dont take command points.

After Mornamarth time runs out he dies and cant be revived in the next 5 minutes. Everything else going back to normal except Hall of King's Man building is paralyzed for the next 3 minutes . All heroes get punished for betrayal to WitchKIng and all thier abilites recharge 50% longer.WitchKing can be again respawned or recruited.When Mornamarth comes back he's abilites need to be firts recharged too and it take 100% longer.

Offline OakenShield224

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Re: New Angmar Ringhero
« Antwort #40 am: 4. Jan 2017, 19:01 »
Slawek's ideas sound good. The idea of most heroes being unable to be recruited was probably the biggest down side to Necro's plan. All heroes except Witch King are still able to be recruited. I feel like most of them would still not want to fully support Mornamarth so there would be no bonuses to them but maybe those that are most loyal to the Witch King (Gulzar and Zaphragor) should be slightly weakened(increasing ability timers?). In contrast, some of the others like Helegwen and Durmarth would be rewarded for their service in some way.

For the Rhudaur and Orc units, the idea is that they become free but there is another negative effect for them. Maybe they could have a small armour decrease to symbolise how Mornamarth just doesn't care about them and throws them to the enemy.

Mornamarth would try to secure his own kingdom if he did take over to prevent treason and ensure loyalty. Maybe another effect of giving him the ring could be that all buildings are protected by a few Dark Dunedain. Once Mornamarth dies, all of these Dunedain die. Castle defences would have more range and all gates/camp entrances would be protected by more Dark Dunedain.
Like I said, I'm all for a 2nd Ring Hero, but it should be an even tradeoff, whereas with the concepts so far it just makes more sense to get Witch King.
Would you class Boromir/Arvedui and Gandalf as an even tradeoff? I understand what you are saying with your arguments and you're definitely more experienced than me with Edain. How would you balance these two proposals?

Offline Slawek56703

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Re: New Angmar Ringhero
« Antwort #41 am: 4. Jan 2017, 20:22 »
I little sorted this idea

Zitat
For the Rhudaur and Orc units, the idea is that they become free but there is another negative effect for them. Maybe they could have a small armour decrease to symbolise how Mornamarth just doesn't care about them and throws them to the enemy

For now i think about remove thier abilities and maybe they can't respawn becouse of  Thral Master is not avivable or he can be replaced and these units are recruited with shadow guard to checking out if Wildman and Orc dont plan to betray his lord ;). This can work like Overserr for orcs Another think might be they are debuffed by presence of other Man of Carn Dum units and become more vulnurable to fea near Mornamarth

Offline OakenShield224

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Re: New Angmar Ringhero
« Antwort #42 am: 4. Jan 2017, 22:34 »
If the Rhudaur and Orc units are having a Shadow Guard who is like an overseer instead of a thrall master, would they have any specific abilities? If they do have abilities, they should emphasise how Mornamarth and Dark Dunedain don't care about the Vassals of Angmar and just throw them into battle without thinking about their death. A few ideas:
Axe Throwers - the Guard orders the unit to fire massive volleys of axes at the enemy. The axe throwers gain +30% attack speed but -30% movement speed and armour. Lasts 20 seconds.
Spearmen - the Guard orders the unit to hold ground at all costs. The spearmen gain knockback resistance, fear resistance and +20% armour to melee for 20 seconds, but they can't move for this time and gain -20% armour to arrows.
Orcs - the Guard orders the units to ferociously strike down the enemy. The orcs gain +30% attack and speed for 20 seconds as well as a chance to knockdown the target but -30% armour.
Wolf Riders - the Guard orders the unit to crush the enemy with each charge. The wolf riders gain +40% speed and reduced crush deceleration but once they are slowed down, they have -30% armour.

I like your idea about how the units would have less fear resistance around Mornamarth since it was the Witch King who held them all together in one army. It would probably be a good downside to any new bonuses that they may get.

Offline Elite KryPtik

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Re: New Angmar Ringhero
« Antwort #43 am: 5. Jan 2017, 01:07 »
Honestly, going back to Necro's proposal, I think that it would be a fairly even tradeoff if you just made all heroes and units recruitable while Mornamarth has the Ring, and got rid of the death timer. Mornamarth doesn't need to have a death timer just because Boromir has one, it suits Boromir's character which is why it's there to begin with. All the extra stuff proposed by Slawek is insane, at least what I could understand. He would be the most OP Ring Hero in the game, even stronger than Saruman and Sauron with all those buffs.
Arise! Arise, Riders of Theoden! Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter! Spear shall be shaken! Shield shall be splintered! A sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now! Ride now! Ride, ride to ruin, and the worlds ending! FORTH EORLINGAS!

Offline OakenShield224

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Re: New Angmar Ringhero
« Antwort #44 am: 5. Jan 2017, 17:50 »
Honestly, going back to Necro's proposal, I think that it would be a fairly even tradeoff if you just made all heroes and units recruitable while Mornamarth has the Ring, and got rid of the death timer. Mornamarth doesn't need to have a death timer just because Boromir has one, it suits Boromir's character which is why it's there to begin with. All the extra stuff proposed by Slawek is insane, at least what I could understand. He would be the most OP Ring Hero in the game, even stronger than Saruman and Sauron with all those buffs.
Makes sense. It does sound OP now that I actually think about it. If you would be able to get all heroes and units with this (I'm assuming Witch King isn't included) would there be any sort of effect for those who aren't Dark Dunedain?
Also would Ring Hero Witch King change to make it more of an even trade-off as well?