[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] Dwarven Suggestions

Durin's fate in the Edain Mod

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Walküre:
I'm quite torn inside in regards of what to do with Durin now. One of my main arguments of the previous passages of this discussion has exactly been the involvement of the One Ring in all of this. As you may understand from my past comments, I'm almost adamant about my conviction that Durin should have nothing to do with that evil artefact; the debate was a scope for trying to find an alternative path, so that we would no longer be bound to rely on the Evil incarnated to implement such fundamental element of the whole Dwarven lore. In case you sought for arguments, the contributions of mine in the preceding pages will offer you plenty of reasonings.

But the Edain Team has already expressed itself in opposition to the idea of using the earthquake via the summoning of the Dwarves' ancestor as an ultimate spell, in the belief that this option might complicate things in unnecessary ways. Furthermore, in order to make the said ultimate spell far smarter and more unique than it actually is, some people have proposed the introduction in the game of the giant earth-hammer from the BFME2 campaign; I don't know if I used the correct name, but the title indicates what it does: it is a monumental machine that Dwarves use to create earthquakes, even in remote parts of the map. Not only do I find this suggestion really apt and suitable for the craftsman/engineer-based nature of this race, but I also think it would be nice to connect such feature with some unknown knowledge and arts that Dwarves boast as their own personal secret (or some arts derived from the teachings of Aulë in Aman, that the Noldor had later entrusted to the Dwarves in the Elder Days). As you can see, there could be interesting aspects to toy with. If you just consider the Elven arts related to warfare, according to which the Eldar of Aman are capable of imbuing and infusing magic (their own nature) into their creations (like swords that sense the Evil and start glowing), it is equally important (maybe) that Dwarves be given an akin opportunity to show off their mastery of building, machinery and so on.

And we now come back to the prime issue of this topic: what place does Durin have in these proposals of ours? This I couldn't tell for sure yet.

dkbluewizard:
Listen to me, if any of you want to see Durin again, then he has to be placed with Erebor. This is the most canonical (as I listed in my earlier reply) than anything proposed. I agree with Diewalkure that the Earthquake spell should stay, whether it is done via the Earthhammer as an upgrade spell on a fortress or just a regular spell is of no consequence to me.

However, the conversation about Durin is this: ET stated that when Thorin II gets the ring, he proclaims himself Durin, Dain does this as well and it makes both of them greedy and lordly. So why not actually give the ring to the guy that is actually destined to become Durin VII? Infusing the spirits of all Durin's into one thereby warding the ring's affects off. Durin is reborn.

Maybe I need to add some abilities to make you guys interested, though I am not as skilled as LordofLinks or Diewalkure on palantir pictures.

But I think the summoning of Durin by King Dain  should read something like this:

"Dain refuses the ring and gives the ring to his grandson to destroy. Dain's grandson proclaims himself the final incarnation of Durin and sets out to destroy the ring."

I don't know, something like that. But if you all want to see Durin rise again, this is the only canonical and right way. Unless Edain is willing to make another hero for Erebor and name him Anar (Dwarf who escorted Bilbo when he left the Shire--I used his name because I felt that Bilbo was such a venerated icon to the Dwarfs that they would have sent their best warriors to escort him since he help win back their home. Anar at this time I used as the earlier version of Durin VII).

So ET could use Anar and make a hero out of him and have him take the ring, but I feel they would complain about some type of statistical error, number, or work--so I feel the best way to implement Durin back in a canonical and right way is like I said: Have King Dain resist the ring (as he does in the book) and give it to his grandson (Thorin III's son) as discussed he was alive at the time of WOTR and this is the most canonical.

Walküre:
Yes, I'm leaning more and more towards the Ring-system option. It seems to be an inexorable conclusion, if we are really willing to see Durin again in the game. We could try to find a solution that satisfies the need to create some distance between the concept and the One Ring: I mean, we could come up with a kind of refusal of the Evil and glorification of Durin's figure, so that the idea itself of summoning the supreme ancestor is not very much connected with the One.

Anyway, I will open a new thread about the Earth-Hammer topic. I deem it better to separate the two things.

dkbluewizard:
Well I haven't talked about this too much, but I actually did a timeline for Durin VII and how old he would be by 3018. 2866 Thorin III was born, and if he had Durin VII at the same age as Dain had him (99 years old), then by 3018 that puts Durin VII at 53 years old.

Now if we continue with the timeline, he is 56 when the Third Age ends and he is 176 years old when Gimli and Legolas leave for Valinor. So assuming the 4th age goes on forever (since we don't know when it ends) and Durin VII has the longevity of the Durins, it is most conceivable that Durin VII is the descendant of Thorin III as he is his son. Durin I lived over 2,500 years, Durin VI was 249 and was ruling in good condition until the Balrog killed him. We are not given any real dates as to how long Durin III-V lived.

So assuming the minimum years being 250 (like Dain) that would put Durin VII at 194 of the Fourth Age. However, we must remember Dwarfs are hinted to live an average of 250 years, Durin's line is longer, and Dwalin lived to a rare 340 years.

So in conclusion, as I have stated, I strongly feel Durin VII would have to be the son of Thorin III, given the short amount of time Dwarfs existed in the 4th age, the longevity of Durins, and the sequences of middle earth's timeline.

I appreciate the feedback from everyone and I too strongly feel that Durin should be brought back to Edain Mod. If not in hero form then at least if King Dain refuses the One Ring.

Durin VII IMO should be the best Dwarf of the Game, that is not to say the best hero or character, he should be better than Thorin II or either Dains. 

Julio229:

--- Zitat von: dkbluewizard am  4. Jun 2017, 22:34 --- Well I haven't talked about this too much, but I actually did a timeline for Durin VII and how old he would be by 3018. 2866 Thorin III was born, and if he had Durin VII at the same age as Dain had him (99 years old), then by 3018 that puts Durin VII at 53 years old.

Now if we continue with the timeline, he is 56 when the Third Age ends and he is 176 years old when Gimli and Legolas leave for Valinor. So assuming the 4th age goes on forever (since we don't know when it ends) and Durin VII has the longevity of the Durins, it is most conceivable that Durin VII is the descendant of Thorin III as he is his son. Durin I lived over 2,500 years, Durin VI was 249 and was ruling in good condition until the Balrog killed him. We are not given any real dates as to how long Durin III-V lived.

So assuming the minimum years being 250 (like Dain) that would put Durin VII at 194 of the Fourth Age. However, we must remember Dwarfs are hinted to live an average of 250 years, Durin's line is longer, and Dwalin lived to a rare 340 years.

So in conclusion, as I have stated, I strongly feel Durin VII would have to be the son of Thorin III, given the short amount of time Dwarfs existed in the 4th age, the longevity of Durins, and the sequences of middle earth's timeline.

I appreciate the feedback from everyone and I too strongly feel that Durin should be brought back to Edain Mod. If not in hero form then at least if King Dain refuses the One Ring.

Durin VII IMO should be the best Dwarf of the Game, that is not to say the best hero or character, he should be better than Thorin II or either Dains.
--- Ende Zitat ---

Your analysis makes a lot of sense! I think he should be the most powerful too, as the seventh coming of Durin.

May I suggest something? In the Path of the Edain map, there's an ally named Thogar, who is the son of Thorin III. I know he isn't canon, but there's no given name for Thorin's son, so... How about Thogar gets added as a regular hero, and gets the Durin VII ring upgrade? It would be cool to add a bit of "Edain Lore" as Angmar have, but add it to Erebor, and have an Edain existing character be Durin VII.

I don't know if it is a really good idea, but it would help avoiding to create new models and such, since he is already in the game.

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