23. Apr 2024, 17:20 Hallo Gast.
Willkommen Gast. Bitte einloggen oder registrieren. Haben Sie Ihre Aktivierungs E-Mail übersehen?

Einloggen mit Benutzername, Passwort und Sitzungslänge. Hierbei werden gemäß Datenschutzerklärung Benutzername und Passwort verschlüsselt für die gewählte Dauer in einem Cookie abgelegt.


Select Boards:
 
Language:
 


Umfrage

Does Durin deserve to remain part of the Edain Mod?

Yes, he's an iconic mythical figure and he deserves to remain part of the Edain Mod
No, he doesn't have any place left in the Edain Mod after the overhaul of the Dwarven Ring system

Autor Thema: Durin's fate in the Edain Mod  (Gelesen 42294 mal)

Walküre

  • Edain Unterstützer
  • Hoher König von Gondor
  • ***
  • Beiträge: 4.706
Re: Durin's fate in the Edain Mod
« Antwort #60 am: 12. Jun 2017, 14:32 »
The first option doesn't displease me either, for it nonetheless encompasses some kind of decent detachment from the One Ring. Of course, the evil artefact is still used, but for the good and the focus still remains on Durin's spirit/incarnation, which is what allows the character to bear that burden. I had not thought about Gandalf the White, I confess; I find the example proper, as I like the design and motive of his Ring form. Needless to say, Galadriel's system would then retain its unique characteristics and this is of the utmost importance for the game. In the end, I would be equally satisfied with the first solution, were you to elect that way :)

As for the Valar, I think that a blessing from them should not be regarded as a true direct intervention in mortal affairs. They would never leave their blessed continent anyway, with the prospect of sending a host being even less likely, lest additional wounds be inflicted on Arda. But I also understand why you would be more comfortable with having the idea of a blessing be related to Galadriel only (given her ethereal and noble nature). And, yes, more heroes should rediscover their own ancient might 8-)

kingsjewel

  • Gast
Re: Durin's fate in the Edain Mod
« Antwort #61 am: 12. Jun 2017, 17:47 »
I think I support the first option. I like that Durin VII concept. I think about the current ring-hero system that Thorin's is correct .The Arkenstone, what has more less power than the One Ring,  also corrupted him. There isn't too much information about young Dáin in the books, but in the movies, he is an agressive, hot-headed warlord, hence he maybe accept the One Ring, if he know about it. Old Dáin is more wise and he refuse Mordor's 'help' in the books. I think your idea is quite acceptable and canon-compatible, and so 'Durin' also would return in the game.
+1

Walküre

  • Edain Unterstützer
  • Hoher König von Gondor
  • ***
  • Beiträge: 4.706
Re: Durin's fate in the Edain Mod
« Antwort #62 am: 12. Jun 2017, 21:18 »
Just as a moderating remark, if you feel that you have almost come to a conclusion, it should be better to prepare a draft of what will be the main presentation post, comprising the lore background of the proposal and the concept itself; additional details may be included later, once the whole thing gets more and more polished. But only if you deem the final design proper for being finalised.

AulëTheSmith

  • Elronds Berater
  • **
  • Beiträge: 300
Re: Durin's fate in the Edain Mod
« Antwort #63 am: 12. Jun 2017, 22:58 »
The first option doesn't displease me either, for it nonetheless encompasses some kind of decent detachment from the One Ring. Of course, the evil artefact is still used, but for the good and the focus still remains on Durin's spirit/incarnation, which is what allows the character to bear that burden. I had not thought about Gandalf the White, I confess; I find the example proper, as I like the design and motive of his Ring form. Needless to say, Galadriel's system would then retain its unique characteristics and this is of the utmost importance for the game. In the end, I would be equally satisfied with the first solution, were you to elect that way :)

As for the Valar, I think that a blessing from them should not be regarded as a true direct intervention in mortal affairs. They would never leave their blessed continent anyway, with the prospect of sending a host being even less likely, lest additional wounds be inflicted on Arda. But I also understand why you would be more comfortable with having the idea of a blessing be related to Galadriel only (given her ethereal and noble nature). And, yes, more heroes should rediscover their own ancient might 8-)

We should definely go towards the first proposal i deem it  a good compromise among all the various configurations we have made (gameplay,lore, ect). I was meaning exactly what you write about the Valar : i see them as gods that can eventually intervene (undirectly), not physically, but sending gifts/blessing or someone who can rapresent their own (see the Istari). But yes to improve the uniqueness (one of the main characteristic of Edain 4.0) we can keep this divine matter related to the Lady of Light, and concentrate the attention on the reincarnation, which would be a certain new special feature of the game and a very important piece of Dwarves belief/mythology :)

Just as a moderating remark, if you feel that you have almost come to a conclusion, it should be better to prepare a draft of what will be the main presentation post, comprising the lore background of the proposal and the concept itself; additional details may be included later, once the whole thing gets more and more polished. But only if you deem the final design proper for being finalised.

I was thinking about this just today because i just spammed too many comments on this matter and maybe it is not a moderating way to act  :D :D i apologize if i also bored the readers  xD. Now that we are near to a stable idea, i'm gonna start to collect in a unique post the salient points, and try eventually  also to finalize the skill-set of our character, which will be (possibly)  the hearth of the concept in game :)

P.s : everyone interested in the concept is invited to contribute, starting from Blue which is the first promoter and developer of all the Durin VII stuff :)


 
« Letzte Änderung: 12. Jun 2017, 23:06 von AulëTheSmith »

Walküre

  • Edain Unterstützer
  • Hoher König von Gondor
  • ***
  • Beiträge: 4.706
Re: Durin's fate in the Edain Mod
« Antwort #64 am: 13. Jun 2017, 00:17 »
Oh no, I didn't mean anything negative with my statement. Have you noticed how much we have 'spammed' for the other proposals? :D

All contributions are equally relevant for me. I just wanted to inform you of what should be done, if you are ready to give this concept an ultimate fashion. I won't take part actively in the process, as I am busy with other tasks that need be taken care of.

AulëTheSmith

  • Elronds Berater
  • **
  • Beiträge: 300
Re: Durin's fate in the Edain Mod
« Antwort #65 am: 13. Jun 2017, 00:53 »
Oh no, I didn't mean anything negative with my statement. Have you noticed how much we have 'spammed' for the other proposals? :D

All contributions are equally relevant for me. I just wanted to inform you of what should be done, if you are ready to give this concept an ultimate fashion. I won't take part actively in the process, as I am busy with other tasks that need be taken care of.
Ahahah :D :D Don't worry Diewalkure, with 'spamming' i didn't mean as negative but rather than a more joking way to say i have post a lot of comments in a short time and with so much ideas as a content  [ugly]
For me is the same i love to share the ideas and more than anything else to find the optimal point between different views :)
I can guess what are you working on, since probably the next spellbook will be of your favourite faction?   :P  I'll wait for the answer from the official news 
 xD.

I'm almost ready to do it, it will require some time for sure :)

AulëTheSmith

  • Elronds Berater
  • **
  • Beiträge: 300
Re: Durin's fate in the Edain Mod
« Antwort #66 am: 17. Jul 2017, 11:02 »
Hi guys  xD
After more than a month i'm back to this thread. I'm glad to announce that, thanks to the precious collaboration of dkbluewizard, we finally complete the concept of Durin VII.
Many thanks to dkblue, first promoter of the whole idea of Durin VII, tireless reader, lore-expert : he crafted a wonderful timeline and story and help me a lot about dates,lore and correction of the whole work.
Feel yourself free to discuss any detail of the work,about lore,story,concept, everything. I subdivided the work in three different spoiler, since images,quotes,writings all together occupy a significant space  xD. Here we are:

« Letzte Änderung: 12. Mär 2018, 11:31 von AulëTheSmith »

Walküre

  • Edain Unterstützer
  • Hoher König von Gondor
  • ***
  • Beiträge: 4.706
Re: Durin's fate in the Edain Mod
« Antwort #67 am: 17. Jul 2017, 17:47 »
Well, the great endeavour and exceptional effort you two poured into the concept is simply apparent. I don't have much more to add. The lore premises of the whole proposal are well thought and they indeed render your suggestions very consistent. I imagine it has taken quite a lot of time to seek for the right lines in the books and to link them to your general reasoning; I also fancy a lot what you've done with the event (remembrance) narrated in the Council of Elrond, in order to address the theme of refusal. Well done! This is really a marvellously conceived work and it was also beautifully presented :)

Only, pardon me if I missed some crucial passages, why did you opt for that particular model? Isn't the current one apt for the situation, given that it was expressly created to suit a noble and legendary characterisation? Also, I thought that every reincarnation of Durin bore an almost identical resemblance to the other reincarnations of the Dwarven ancestor, so that it is justified to retain the same model (at least, theoretically speaking).

AulëTheSmith

  • Elronds Berater
  • **
  • Beiträge: 300
Re: Durin's fate in the Edain Mod
« Antwort #68 am: 17. Jul 2017, 18:27 »
Hi Diewalkure :)
first of all i'm very happy that you like the whole work  xD: yes it requires a lot of time especially in finding the various passages and in the creation of the various images. I think dkblue spent a lot of time as well :)
As for the model: now that you make me notice, i have not deeply explained this choice.
I like the armor (it fits very well with Erebor) and general design. In particular the two model i inserted rapresent the evolution of the character: the first before the travel to Moria, the second (from rank 5 on) when Hannar finally finds the equipment of Durin I. More than anything i believe that a more young looking fits well with Hannar :  during the   war of the rings (so when he can possibly receive the ring) he's around 50.
Now you could say me: yes but we can simply modify the model of Durin I a bit to adapt it for Durin VII, making him younger. I cannot say it is a bad idea, since i'm fond to the old model as well :)
For example an alternative to my concept could be:
- From level 1 to level 5:

-From rank 5 on: the same model but with the old armor design of durin I.

I'm open to suggestions. I think anyway that the aspect DVZ mod Durin VII is similar, in term of "somatic traits", to the old model :). Do you find it so out of place?
I also keep in my mind the same "image" of Hannar from the start to the end (as you can see in the pictures): a black beard skilled smith.
I want also the opinion of dk on the matter, being him my colleague in the creation of Durin VII  ;)

« Letzte Änderung: 17. Jul 2017, 18:35 von AulëTheSmith »

Walküre

  • Edain Unterstützer
  • Hoher König von Gondor
  • ***
  • Beiträge: 4.706
Re: Durin's fate in the Edain Mod
« Antwort #69 am: 17. Jul 2017, 21:09 »
In my very personal view, be it clear, the current model exemplifies the utter and otherworldly transformation of the character in Durin, when he finally accepts his real blessed nature as the reincarnation of such a legend. On another side, this would also spare you the need to find other graphical alternatives, being the vision of Edain quite sound for the purpose, although I know for sure that reasonings of this sort kind of kill the whole creative process [ugly]

Ectheldir

  • Bilbos Festgast
  • *
  • Beiträge: 19
Re: Durin's fate in the Edain Mod
« Antwort #70 am: 17. Jul 2017, 22:28 »
This proposal looks amazing! You have my full support with this.
Only one little thing: I really don't like the idea of the ring being used without corrupting the user. I know Gandalf the white also does this, but I do not like it there and he is still the Istari with the strongest mind, not some dwarf. Maybe you could voice it a little different and say that he is instead send on the mission to destroy the ring and discovers his powers in the progress.

AulëTheSmith

  • Elronds Berater
  • **
  • Beiträge: 300
Re: Durin's fate in the Edain Mod
« Antwort #71 am: 17. Jul 2017, 23:32 »
In my very personal view, be it clear, the current model exemplifies the utter and otherworldly transformation of the character in Durin, when he finally accepts his real blessed nature as the reincarnation of such a legend. On another side, this would also spare you the need to find other graphical alternatives, being the vision of Edain quite sound for the purpose, although I know for sure that reasonings of this sort kind of kill the whole creative process [ugly]

Yes if we would simply replace with the old model i will feel a bit as you said Diewalkure  [ugly]. As i said i like very much the old model, it is the best Durin of all mod. But in this case i feel better with something new. And i see the trasformation more "spiritual" than phisical.

This proposal looks amazing! You have my full support with this.
Only one little thing: I really don't like the idea of the ring being used without corrupting the user. I know Gandalf the white also does this, but I do not like it there and he is still the Istari with the strongest mind, not some dwarf. Maybe you could voice it a little different and say that he is instead send on the mission to destroy the ring and discovers his powers in the progress.

it is a delicate issue the one you raised Ectheldir. The fact is, following our idea, it is not simply "some dwarf", but the heir of Durin, forefather and most powerful dwarf of all time. The theme around the refusal it is exactly this: Dain gives the ring to Hannar because only a spirit similar to the first ancestor can control such a power. As for my personal opinion, i would stay with this idea.
Anyhow, if i remember well, not so long ago dkblue himself proposed something about a travel to destroy the ring. Am i right dk?

Walküre

  • Edain Unterstützer
  • Hoher König von Gondor
  • ***
  • Beiträge: 4.706
Re: Durin's fate in the Edain Mod
« Antwort #72 am: 17. Jul 2017, 23:52 »
As i said i like very much the old model, it is the best Durin of all mod. But in this case i feel better with something new. And i see the trasformation more "spiritual" than phisical.

You know, we are in the realm of Arda, where magic turns anything spiritual into something very much physical too :D


dkbluewizard

  • Gastwirt zu Bree
  • **
  • Beiträge: 125
Re: Durin's fate in the Edain Mod
« Antwort #73 am: 18. Jul 2017, 06:09 »
In regards to Aule and Ectheldir, the resistance of the One Ring, is because of all the Durin's knowledge combined into Durin VII. As discussed, Durin VII bears memories of the Durin's of old and thus the spirits within him allow him to resist the One Ring. This is a plausible technique--I mean think of the accumulating levels of knowledge Durin VII would have. If you follow all the lines of Durin, Durin VII would know the intricate details of the One Ring and the corruptive influence of all evil. Therefore I believe Durin VII could resist the One Ring and travel to destroy it in mount doom in much the same way Frodo and Sam did.

We must ask ourselves this with what is presented:

Does this conflict with the History of Durin VII: NO
Does this timeline conflict with the History of Arda: NO
Is Thorin III's descendant still Durin VII: YES
Does this complicate or dissociate with the Lore: NO

Based on these premises, game balance, and lore effectiveness--I see no reason not to include this fundamental experience to the game as it works effectively and is supported by the lore.
Outside of Lord of the Rings, I am pretty sure Vengeance of Valdorian & Leoj's Wrath are the best novels I have read.

AulëTheSmith

  • Elronds Berater
  • **
  • Beiträge: 300
Re: Durin's fate in the Edain Mod
« Antwort #74 am: 18. Jul 2017, 10:34 »
As i said i like very much the old model, it is the best Durin of all mod. But in this case i feel better with something new. And i see the trasformation more "spiritual" than phisical.

You know, we are in the realm of Arda, where magic turns anything spiritual into something very much physical too :D


Diewalküre, You make the clearest of examples in this case  :D :D.
Sorry if i seem stubborn (like a dwarf  :D) about the design. But i don't feel good in a total variation from the model i proposed, i'm instead open for a good compromise  ;)

In regards to Aule and Ectheldir, the resistance of the One Ring, is because of all the Durin's knowledge combined into Durin VII. As discussed, Durin VII bears memories of the Durin's of old and thus the spirits within him allow him to resist the One Ring. This is a plausible technique--I mean think of the accumulating levels of knowledge Durin VII would have. If you follow all the lines of Durin, Durin VII would know the intricate details of the One Ring and the corruptive influence of all evil. Therefore I believe Durin VII could resist the One Ring and travel to destroy it in mount doom in much the same way Frodo and Sam did.

Indeed. As i wrote it is not "some dwarf" but the incarnation of Durin, basing on the lore the most powerful of the various heirs (from II to VI).
Dk what do you think about the model variation proposed?