[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] Dwarven Suggestions

Durin's fate in the Edain Mod

<< < (17/29) > >>

AulëTheSmith:
Hi Dain :)
I respect your opinion, really. I think the point you raised is the very reason of why this all thread/poll made by DieWalküre is born :) I agree that the old system can look not consistent and not solid : to reborn Durin from a statue is not so canonical, and as I just wrote sound a bit Of "necromancy". However, looking at the lore, the theme of reaincarnation seems the most canonical. It is something that, say what you want, is part of the dwarven culture.
I can affirm, without any claims, that our system is way more solid than the old one (in term of lore at least). I don't get why you deem the physical form "unrealiable". Durin VII is the last king and he reconquers Moria: if Durin I will eventually return, undoubtedly Durin the Last is the most probable heir which could host the spirit of the forefather.
The time scale has been demonstrated in the presentation, even if We added something by our interpretation (lore-based in any case).
As for the spellbook: I don't think the team wanna introduce new powers. As I understand they are very happy with the last they presented ( a part of minor changes).
That's my view  ;)

Dain@:
Dear AulëTheSmith and dkbluewizard . I am a Dwarf worshiper myself. But as for Durin (son of Thorin) as a separate hero for Erebor, I agree that both the timeline and knowledge allow your offer to have very high chances of success. I'm just against the reincarnation of the forefather Durin in some form. (No matter Torin, Dain or another hero). He's just dead long ago, and in my opinion he can not be reincarnated. After all, if the son of Thorin Stonelm, bears the name Durin, this does not yet imply the reincarnation of the pro-father himself. In my understanding (I do not know if it's appropriate, but it may be analogous when Theoden in the Paleonor Fields called the Rohirim into battle, calling them Eorlings.) - that is, thinking that they will inherit something, what kind of valor is the kind of valor, so Durin and herself are the incarnation Certain qualities are peculiar to dwarves. I'm not against mechanics and the implementation system, I'm against the very concept of reincarnation (Even for Thorin and Dain).
Your work deserves praise, after all it is very intelligently and canonically invented, but as for me here is the same problem as Imaldris - the last aliance (Yes canonically and epically), but is it appropriate to bring back the army and heroes who have long been measured on the battlefield ???
I sincerely ask you not to take this text as a negative or an insult.

dkbluewizard:
Dain@, I really don't know what to say about you being against the whole reincarnation thing. Cool, I guess...but if you go by the timeline and what is written in the books, the Dwarfs believed it--and I don't see how Theoden calling Rohirim Eorlings matches. But whatever...

AulëTheSmith:

--- Zitat von: Dain@ am 20. Jul 2017, 19:19 ---Dear AulëTheSmith and dkbluewizard . I am a Dwarf worshiper myself. But as for Durin (son of Thorin) as a separate hero for Erebor, I agree that both the timeline and knowledge allow your offer to have very high chances of success. I'm just against the reincarnation of the forefather Durin in some form. (No matter Torin, Dain or another hero). He's just dead long ago, and in my opinion he can not be reincarnated. After all, if the son of Thorin Stonelm, bears the name Durin, this does not yet imply the reincarnation of the pro-father himself. In my understanding (I do not know if it's appropriate, but it may be analogous when Theoden in the Paleonor Fields called the Rohirim into battle, calling them Eorlings.) - that is, thinking that they will inherit something, what kind of valor is the kind of valor, so Durin and herself are the incarnation Certain qualities are peculiar to dwarves. I'm not against mechanics and the implementation system, I'm against the very concept of reincarnation (Even for Thorin and Dain).
Your work deserves praise, after all it is very intelligently and canonically invented, but as for me here is the same problem as Imaldris - the last aliance (Yes canonically and epically), but is it appropriate to bring back the army and heroes who have long been measured on the battlefield ???
I sincerely ask you not to take this text as a negative or an insult.

--- Ende Zitat ---

Don't worry Dain@ your words are not negative neither an insult :) We are here to discuss, and debates are the soul of the forum  ;).
As for the reincarnation: it is something in which the dwarves believe,  and there are many sources about this theme. The belief is not only for Durin but also for the other six fathers. The heirs that bear the name of Durin resemble in some way Durin I himself, in the way they look but also in some skills. I think that Durin VII, being the last one and basing on the lore, could be the one who most resable his forefather.
A very key-word in all this matter it is the meaning of "Durin". If you look at the pdf we inserted (i find it very interesting especially for a dwarven fan) there are many names of the dwarves that Tolkien taken from the old norse mythology. The majority have the meaning which is not apparently linked to the personality of the character:  for example Gloin (Gloinn) means the Glowing one, Dwalin (Dvalinn) means lazy.
Durin (Durinn) is instead an exception, the name means "sleepy" or the "sleeper": it is not a case the professor chosen this meaning. In fact the dwarves don't consider him as really dead, but rather than in a deep sleep. The spirit of Durin never really goes to the halls of Mandos, but is waiting for the moment in which he finally awake. I think choosing the reincarnation we can adress this last concept in the best way: not a phisical awakening but spirtual, in his last heir which is Durin VII.
I really believe that is a good road to follow, i don't think i will change this general idea  ;)
Sources:


--- Zitat von: History of Middle Earth XII: Last Writings ---… "The Dwarves add that at that time Aulë gained them also this privilege that distinguished them from Elves and Men: that the spirit of each of the Fathers should, at the end of the long span of life allotted to Dwarves, fall asleep, but then lie in a tomb of his own body, at rest, and their its weariness and any hurts that had befallen it should be amended. Then after long years he should arise and take up his kingship again.”
--- Ende Zitat ---

Dwarven names:
https://is.cuni.cz/studium/predmety/index.php?do=download&did=67368&kod=ARL100258


--- Zitat von: dkbluewizard am 20. Jul 2017, 21:55 ---Dain@, I really don't know what to say about you being against the whole reincarnation thing. Cool, I guess...but if you go by the timeline and what is written in the books, the Dwarfs believed it--and I don't see how Theoden calling Rohirim Eorlings matches. But whatever...

--- Ende Zitat ---

Eorlings because they are "sons" or "heirs", in some way, of Eorl the Young, first king of Rohan. Eorl is a legendary hero for Rohan, as Durin is for the Dwarves (but in different order of magnitude and different power of course). So i think Dain@ was trying to say that, from his pov, the best way to honor these epic characters is to introduce in game some power or spell that keeps alive their memory.
I think, anyway, the case of Durin is unique and the reincarnation/awakening theme is unique as well; you cannot find something similar in other folks of Middle Earth (neither via Eorl the Young).
So it worth the general concept we conceived imo, with similar abilities of Durin I;)

Walküre:

--- Zitat von: Dain@ am 20. Jul 2017, 19:19 ---Your work deserves praise, after all it is very intelligently and canonically invented, but as for me here is the same problem as Imaldris - the last aliance (Yes canonically and epically), but is it appropriate to bring back the army and heroes who have long been measured on the battlefield ???

--- Ende Zitat ---

Considering the Last Alliance spell as an example, I personally accept the logic of similar features, because they belong to highly specific or exceptional contexts, such as an ultimate spell or a Ring feature, as in this precise case. In light of these premises, the great uniqueness that akin solutions bring outweighs the negative sides by a far margin. Just think about Imladris; the potential loss of the Last Alliance spell might seriously be devastating for the conceptual design of the very faction, since the the whole motive of the cinematographic prologue of LOTR is of prime importance for the game. Something we could hardly do without.

I guess you should try to view Durin's situation in the same exceptional perspective :)

Navigation

[0] Themen-Index

[#] Nächste Seite

[*] Vorherige Sete