[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] Dwarven Suggestions

Durin's fate in the Edain Mod

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Isildurs Fluch:
I´m happy to see, that you like my ideas  ;)
I haven´t read everything in this thread, because it´s already very long and therefore haven´t seen the modified Dain-modell and I couldn´t find it, when I quick-searched the thread.  :(
Edit: I think I found it: do you mean this one?
If this would be the case, I like it a lot more, than the other one, because he looks more like a mythical king. [ugly]

But I think the shield and shoulder armour doesn´t look that good and could use some rework and he could have a bit more armour in general...

Maybe it would be wise to repost the whole concept in the end of this thread in a spoiler to make it easier for newcomers to start in the discussion (maybe including my ideas?). The startpost is always aswell a good option for this, but you didn´t start this and so I guess it´s not possible...

Linking the transformation of Hannar to Durin VII to the travel camp is also an interesting concepts which fits nicely in the already existing Moria-mechanique, but it has it´s drawbacks aswell:

* I´m not sure if it´s technical possible to combine a ring-bearer with another batallion. I have something in mind, that this was impossible due to the necessary game-definition of a ring-hero as citadel, but am not quite sure. I think that was the reason, why you can´t combine Gandalf and Theoden on horse with the hobbits.
* The travel camp is a much bigger limitation, because it forces the player to build it new (and thus maybe sacrificing his already build settlements) or defend it from earlier (as a settlement it is an easy target for the enemy, who for sure doesn´t want to fight Durin).
* I´m not sure, if Hannar could keep his level, if he uses the travel-system. For the normal troops this is impossibleThe system I suggested is much easier in technical terms and does work always if the player has enough ressources. A more limitating and complicated system will cause fewer appearences of DurinVII, which is not what we want.

If you fear the team will deny the concept because of a lot of effort they would need to implement it, we could make two alternatives. One short and focused on the essentials using already existing modells, etc. and one long and epic as we would see it as an ideal implementation of Durin.

What do you think about my thoughts on Thorin and young Dain?
And am I allowed to translate and post it into the German section?
Yours sincerely
Isildurs Bane

Walküre:
Isildur, I think you should definitely proceed with the translation in German of the proposal. Only in this way will we have a clearer portrait of the Community's feedback and it would be certainly helpful to spark some interest there. I know that the German Community is generally fond of and much interested in Dwarves. Should you need help, I could always help you in keeping the English forum informed of the German consensus.

By the way, speaking about the models of the Das Vierte Zeitalter Mod, two members of its team (the very founders, I suppose) were FG and Radagast, who now are part of the Edain Team itself. So, if we really needed permission to use that content, I don't think there would be serious issues with utilising again their own art for the sake of the Edain Mod; if not, you could always ask for their counsel on the matter. They surely know more about it.

AulëTheSmith:

--- Zitat von: AulëTheSmith am 22. Jul 2017, 15:39 ---Oh god I forgot to answer you about  German translation sorry Isildur  : yes of course you can ;) thank you very much for your help   xD

--- Ende Zitat ---

I apologize Isildur, while you were posting I was editing my comment because I forgot to answer you about the translation  [ugly]. Anyway of course you can translate, thank you very much for your interest and support! I'm glad you extent the concept also in the German forum :)

-As for Lord Dain and Thorin : I like the current system of the two heroes, but
Anyway I agree with many people who say it can be improved further, especially for Dain. I mean the difensive system of ring-Dain is something devasting, if you have him near buildings you can create an army in a blink of an eye  [ugly]. And the fortress he can summon is very strong and a tribute to vanilla. Anyhow as you said an aggressive system seems more suitable for him, rather than defensive. At least in the movie he's an impulsive character always ready to jump into the heart of battlefield.

- yes the figure I mentioned is that one: the general texture of Durin I armor is very good but it can be improved in terms of quality, it worth to remake it in high definition :)

-as for The horsepack: didn't know about those technical problems  [ugly].
The general logic is very good and simple, because you only have to pay. Anyhow I would prefer something else to a simple cost of resources,always  keeping the logic you proposed.
Another idea could be: once Hannar reach level 5, he unlock the ability expedition to khazad dum. One battalion(or even 2 or 3) of elite warriors(Arkenguard in case of Erebor) is chosen to accompany Hannar in his resolutive travel to Moria: left clicking on the battalion(s), Hannar and the elite unit(s) will eventually disappear. When he returns, he's now Durin VII with the armor of his ancestor. Regarding the units who fight with him, they come back as well, it would be cool as a special feature if after the travel they become veteran of khazad dum (a more rapid and alternative way with respect to horsepack).
Anyway it this way the player have to recruit one or more battalion of elite unit, and Hannar must reach rank 5: is it balanced in your view? You can also adjust the time of the travel in order to make all the stuff more balanced.

I will adjust the general presentation inserting more ideas and alternative models for Hannar/Durin VII.  ;)
As a moderation issue: DieWalküre, do you think is it better to shift all of this in an independent new thread to make things easier? If not I can eventually repost the presentation. I'm only afraid that new many comment will make the post disappear again 
[ugly]

Isildurs Fluch:
I definitly know the struggle in a thread, which wasn´t made with a concept but about a topic, were multiple concepts are created. I would guess it´s ok, to open a new thread just for your concept  for this reason, were the startpost always contains the latest version of the concept, but I´m not the moderator, so Walküre has to say...

I haven´t read your edited comment and were to quick to answer  :D
I will translate it soon, but would need the latest version of the concept to remain true to your concept. I don´t want steal the the honor for this wunderfull concept of yours  :P

I like your new idea for the reconquest of Moria even more, because it is very balanced:
Hannars last abbility is the Reconquest of Khazad Dum linked to level 5. This abbility is used on 3-4 elite-units, which dissappear for a while together with him. After a while they return as Khazad Dum veterans together with DurinVII. Durin starts again on level 1, but is now a much more powerfull and aged hero.
So this ring-system takes some time: In the beginning your enemy still has a good chance of killing Hannar and claiming the ring, but if you are able to get DurinVII you should most likely win the game soon.
I´m not even sure if it is necessary to let DurinVII level at all. He also could just appear on level 10 together with Veterans on level 5, but than the time the player has to wait would need to take a little longer. What do you think?

About Thorin and young Dain:
I like the general idea of their system at the moment, but find the implementation not ideal:
Haven´t played Edain for a while and dwarves are normally not my faction, so I don´t know their ring-abbilities very good. As I understood it, their abilities are more based on the general character of the faction, not on the characters of those two iconic figures, in Dains case even contradicting it a bit. If anybody knows them by heart or is able to look it up quickly, I would be very thankfull if he could post them here. I personally gave my BfME-disc to a friend, so he could play and I can focus on university.  8-|

I find the idea very interesting to use the ring-system of the dwarven factions to compensate the weakness of the particular faction while considering the characters of Dain and Thorin, which the ring definitly would corrupt in different ways:

* Ered Luin: The faction is very fast and adaptible, but it´s troops lack without upgrades atack and defense. Thorins biggest weakness is his greed, as seen in the books, where he was willing to risk the lives of his friends only to avoid sharing his treasure. A classical dwarf I guess...  [uglybunti]
In his ring-system he could generate passive money (looting is for dwarves not really fitting), but weaken the armour of the other heroes.
This money could be used to buy expensive upgrades for your normal troops to stregthen their atack or defense.
* Iron Hills: This faction has very strong armour, but they lack a bit concerning their atack. Young Dain as seen in the movie was a very pugnacious and impulsive king. The ring would turn this into blood lust. So he would force the atack boosting the speed and atack of all the troops, but weakening the armour of their buildings, by letting them undefended.
* Erebor: Erebor is strong in atack, but not really in defense. You already gave DurinVII an ability to improve building-armour and characterized Hannar in his young age as a mastersmith. So I would say Mastersmith is his first passive ability which strengthens the armour of your troops. He could keep this as Durin as a part of his leadership, but also getting the opportunity to strengthen the buildings, but as an active abbility. His only drawback is, that he doesn´t unleash his full potential immediatly and is comparativley easy to kill in the beginning.I must say it is a pleasure to share ideas with you, I view this discussion as very constructive and I´d really love to play with this system for real  (**)
Yours sincerely
Isildurs Bane

Walküre:
I could edit the initial post and insert the main proposal, but I deem opening a new own topic the best solution, just as I had done with Narya; after a strenuous and tough debate on Gandalf and the lore, we have opted for a new topic, for the sake of clarity and simplicity. Only, I feel like giving you this vital advice: you should go for the new thread when the core of the proposal is already well defined and known by the other users. Additional elements may always be added at a second moment, as I did with Círdan. Just, the presentation post of the new topic ought to present a very, very much, clear portrait of the situation, if you are also to start gathering feedback via the for/against-mechanism. Graphics and icon pictures help a lot equally. In case you were in need, I'm always at anyone's disposal :)

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