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Umfrage

Does Durin deserve to remain part of the Edain Mod?

Yes, he's an iconic mythical figure and he deserves to remain part of the Edain Mod
No, he doesn't have any place left in the Edain Mod after the overhaul of the Dwarven Ring system

Autor Thema: Durin's fate in the Edain Mod  (Gelesen 41369 mal)

Isildurs Fluch

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Re: Durin's fate in the Edain Mod
« Antwort #90 am: 22. Jul 2017, 17:01 »
I´m happy to see, that you like my ideas  ;)
I haven´t read everything in this thread, because it´s already very long and therefore haven´t seen the modified Dain-modell and I couldn´t find it, when I quick-searched the thread.  :(
Edit: I think I found it: do you mean this one?
If this would be the case, I like it a lot more, than the other one, because he looks more like a mythical king. [ugly]

But I think the shield and shoulder armour doesn´t look that good and could use some rework and he could have a bit more armour in general...


Maybe it would be wise to repost the whole concept in the end of this thread in a spoiler to make it easier for newcomers to start in the discussion (maybe including my ideas?). The startpost is always aswell a good option for this, but you didn´t start this and so I guess it´s not possible...

Linking the transformation of Hannar to Durin VII to the travel camp is also an interesting concepts which fits nicely in the already existing Moria-mechanique, but it has it´s drawbacks aswell:
  • I´m not sure if it´s technical possible to combine a ring-bearer with another batallion. I have something in mind, that this was impossible due to the necessary game-definition of a ring-hero as citadel, but am not quite sure. I think that was the reason, why you can´t combine Gandalf and Theoden on horse with the hobbits.
  • The travel camp is a much bigger limitation, because it forces the player to build it new (and thus maybe sacrificing his already build settlements) or defend it from earlier (as a settlement it is an easy target for the enemy, who for sure doesn´t want to fight Durin).
  • I´m not sure, if Hannar could keep his level, if he uses the travel-system. For the normal troops this is impossible
The system I suggested is much easier in technical terms and does work always if the player has enough ressources. A more limitating and complicated system will cause fewer appearences of DurinVII, which is not what we want.

If you fear the team will deny the concept because of a lot of effort they would need to implement it, we could make two alternatives. One short and focused on the essentials using already existing modells, etc. and one long and epic as we would see it as an ideal implementation of Durin.

What do you think about my thoughts on Thorin and young Dain?
And am I allowed to translate and post it into the German section?
Yours sincerely
Isildurs Bane
« Letzte Änderung: 22. Jul 2017, 17:10 von Isildurs Fluch »
Ersatz für die Elchreiter:
https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,35514.0.html

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Walküre

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Re: Durin's fate in the Edain Mod
« Antwort #91 am: 22. Jul 2017, 22:45 »
Isildur, I think you should definitely proceed with the translation in German of the proposal. Only in this way will we have a clearer portrait of the Community's feedback and it would be certainly helpful to spark some interest there. I know that the German Community is generally fond of and much interested in Dwarves. Should you need help, I could always help you in keeping the English forum informed of the German consensus.

By the way, speaking about the models of the Das Vierte Zeitalter Mod, two members of its team (the very founders, I suppose) were FG and Radagast, who now are part of the Edain Team itself. So, if we really needed permission to use that content, I don't think there would be serious issues with utilising again their own art for the sake of the Edain Mod; if not, you could always ask for their counsel on the matter. They surely know more about it.

AulëTheSmith

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Re: Durin's fate in the Edain Mod
« Antwort #92 am: 23. Jul 2017, 11:31 »
Oh god I forgot to answer you about  German translation sorry Isildur  : yes of course you can ;) thank you very much for your help   xD

I apologize Isildur, while you were posting I was editing my comment because I forgot to answer you about the translation  [ugly]. Anyway of course you can translate, thank you very much for your interest and support! I'm glad you extent the concept also in the German forum :)

-As for Lord Dain and Thorin : I like the current system of the two heroes, but
Anyway I agree with many people who say it can be improved further, especially for Dain. I mean the difensive system of ring-Dain is something devasting, if you have him near buildings you can create an army in a blink of an eye  [ugly]. And the fortress he can summon is very strong and a tribute to vanilla. Anyhow as you said an aggressive system seems more suitable for him, rather than defensive. At least in the movie he's an impulsive character always ready to jump into the heart of battlefield.

- yes the figure I mentioned is that one: the general texture of Durin I armor is very good but it can be improved in terms of quality, it worth to remake it in high definition :)

-as for The horsepack: didn't know about those technical problems  [ugly].
The general logic is very good and simple, because you only have to pay. Anyhow I would prefer something else to a simple cost of resources,always  keeping the logic you proposed.
Another idea could be: once Hannar reach level 5, he unlock the ability expedition to khazad dum. One battalion(or even 2 or 3) of elite warriors(Arkenguard in case of Erebor) is chosen to accompany Hannar in his resolutive travel to Moria: left clicking on the battalion(s), Hannar and the elite unit(s) will eventually disappear. When he returns, he's now Durin VII with the armor of his ancestor. Regarding the units who fight with him, they come back as well, it would be cool as a special feature if after the travel they become veteran of khazad dum (a more rapid and alternative way with respect to horsepack).
Anyway it this way the player have to recruit one or more battalion of elite unit, and Hannar must reach rank 5: is it balanced in your view? You can also adjust the time of the travel in order to make all the stuff more balanced.

I will adjust the general presentation inserting more ideas and alternative models for Hannar/Durin VII.  ;)
As a moderation issue: DieWalküre, do you think is it better to shift all of this in an independent new thread to make things easier? If not I can eventually repost the presentation. I'm only afraid that new many comment will make the post disappear again 
[ugly]



Isildurs Fluch

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Re: Durin's fate in the Edain Mod
« Antwort #93 am: 23. Jul 2017, 13:17 »
I definitly know the struggle in a thread, which wasn´t made with a concept but about a topic, were multiple concepts are created. I would guess it´s ok, to open a new thread just for your concept  for this reason, were the startpost always contains the latest version of the concept, but I´m not the moderator, so Walküre has to say...

I haven´t read your edited comment and were to quick to answer  :D
I will translate it soon, but would need the latest version of the concept to remain true to your concept. I don´t want steal the the honor for this wunderfull concept of yours  :P

I like your new idea for the reconquest of Moria even more, because it is very balanced:
Hannars last abbility is the Reconquest of Khazad Dum linked to level 5. This abbility is used on 3-4 elite-units, which dissappear for a while together with him. After a while they return as Khazad Dum veterans together with DurinVII. Durin starts again on level 1, but is now a much more powerfull and aged hero.
So this ring-system takes some time: In the beginning your enemy still has a good chance of killing Hannar and claiming the ring, but if you are able to get DurinVII you should most likely win the game soon.
I´m not even sure if it is necessary to let DurinVII level at all. He also could just appear on level 10 together with Veterans on level 5, but than the time the player has to wait would need to take a little longer. What do you think?

About Thorin and young Dain:
I like the general idea of their system at the moment, but find the implementation not ideal:
Haven´t played Edain for a while and dwarves are normally not my faction, so I don´t know their ring-abbilities very good. As I understood it, their abilities are more based on the general character of the faction, not on the characters of those two iconic figures, in Dains case even contradicting it a bit. If anybody knows them by heart or is able to look it up quickly, I would be very thankfull if he could post them here. I personally gave my BfME-disc to a friend, so he could play and I can focus on university.  8-|

I find the idea very interesting to use the ring-system of the dwarven factions to compensate the weakness of the particular faction while considering the characters of Dain and Thorin, which the ring definitly would corrupt in different ways:
  • Ered Luin: The faction is very fast and adaptible, but it´s troops lack without upgrades atack and defense. Thorins biggest weakness is his greed, as seen in the books, where he was willing to risk the lives of his friends only to avoid sharing his treasure. A classical dwarf I guess...  [uglybunti]
    In his ring-system he could generate passive money (looting is for dwarves not really fitting), but weaken the armour of the other heroes.
    This money could be used to buy expensive upgrades for your normal troops to stregthen their atack or defense.
  • Iron Hills: This faction has very strong armour, but they lack a bit concerning their atack. Young Dain as seen in the movie was a very pugnacious and impulsive king. The ring would turn this into blood lust. So he would force the atack boosting the speed and atack of all the troops, but weakening the armour of their buildings, by letting them undefended.
  • Erebor: Erebor is strong in atack, but not really in defense. You already gave DurinVII an ability to improve building-armour and characterized Hannar in his young age as a mastersmith. So I would say Mastersmith is his first passive ability which strengthens the armour of your troops. He could keep this as Durin as a part of his leadership, but also getting the opportunity to strengthen the buildings, but as an active abbility. His only drawback is, that he doesn´t unleash his full potential immediatly and is comparativley easy to kill in the beginning.
I must say it is a pleasure to share ideas with you, I view this discussion as very constructive and I´d really love to play with this system for real  (**)
Yours sincerely
Isildurs Bane
« Letzte Änderung: 23. Jul 2017, 13:30 von Isildurs Fluch »
Ersatz für die Elchreiter:
https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,35514.0.html

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https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,35515.0.html


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Walküre

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Re: Durin's fate in the Edain Mod
« Antwort #94 am: 23. Jul 2017, 15:39 »
I could edit the initial post and insert the main proposal, but I deem opening a new own topic the best solution, just as I had done with Narya; after a strenuous and tough debate on Gandalf and the lore, we have opted for a new topic, for the sake of clarity and simplicity. Only, I feel like giving you this vital advice: you should go for the new thread when the core of the proposal is already well defined and known by the other users. Additional elements may always be added at a second moment, as I did with Círdan. Just, the presentation post of the new topic ought to present a very, very much, clear portrait of the situation, if you are also to start gathering feedback via the for/against-mechanism. Graphics and icon pictures help a lot equally. In case you were in need, I'm always at anyone's disposal :)

AulëTheSmith

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Re: Durin's fate in the Edain Mod
« Antwort #95 am: 24. Jul 2017, 01:25 »
Isildur: it is a pleasure to me too to share ideas with you  xD. Don't worry i'm not afraid you steal honor  :D. I'm one of the two author but the concept is now on the hands of the community, so keeping the general idea of the concept solid, i'm glad to hear any new idea to improve all the other aspects, in particular the abilities and the implementation of the character, which has to be as reasonable and balanced as possible  :).
Regarding the dwarves realms, your idea of compensation is reasonable. To be precise about Thorin, yes he's quite selfish, so if you look at the aspect of personality only, is right to not let you collect the resources he gains into battle, but rather readress money towards something else. From a gameplay  point of view, the current system is not so bad, giving you a huge amount in battle but a very low production in buildings, forcing you to fight if you want to earn: this involve the risk you are talking about, so that Thorin have to risk his life and the one of the other dwarfs only for gold (otherwise you have a very weak economy) [ugly].
As for Dain your idea is opposite to the current one: the ring system increases esponentially the merit of the faction, the defence. I think in this case the team make a precise choice to put all the faction towards defence, making also the personality of Lord Dain as defensive ( it sounds strange because you could expect that behaviour from King Dain, the one who defended the gate of Erebor from a huge army of Easterlings  [ugly]): i suppose they make this choice in the name of uniqueness, with the standard logic of  Edain 4.0 to give a precise direction to each unit hero etc.

Regarding Hannar: i shall talk with dkblue, my colleague in the work. I will elaborate a new updated work in which i will eventually insert more options and also this last idea of a weaker starting hero. I think i will structure the work in two main options:

-the first more Edain team-friendly  [ugly], in the sense that it requires less work for the implementation in all the senses.
-the second more complex (involving these last ideas) but it would be more balanced than the first one.

Of course lore and story will remain unchanged, i will modify only the last spolier of the presentation :)

Diewalkure: when the work will be completed, i will post it in a new thread, making the things a lot easier. Then Isildur can traslate it for the German forum  :). This intense discussion and many comments means we have sparked a lot the interest around Durin return, and i'm very happy for that. I think the work it is practically ready as it is, but Isildur rightly raised the issue of the  balance, something that probably me and dkblue we have discussed less.
The core itself will remain uchanged: the refusal of the ring involves Hannar/Durin VII summon  :). Thank you very much smart and masterly moderator! your resources are infinite!  xD






Isildurs Fluch

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Re: Durin's fate in the Edain Mod
« Antwort #96 am: 24. Jul 2017, 09:11 »
Regarding the dwarves realms, your idea of compensation is reasonable. To be precise about Thorin, yes he's quite selfish, so if you look at the aspect of personality only, is right to not let you collect the resources he gains into battle, but rather readress money towards something else. From a gameplay  point of view, the current system is not so bad, giving you a huge amount in battle but a very low production in buildings, forcing you to fight if you want to earn: this involve the risk you are talking about, so that Thorin have to risk his life and the one of the other dwarfs only for gold (otherwise you have a very weak economy) [ugly].
Still stronger than any other faction, but still I get your point. But wouldn´t it still work, if the relation would be the other way round?
I´d let him increase the production of mineshafts passively, which still makes it attractive to fight to get more settlements in your hands and give hime a bit money for every killed enemy if he is nearby.

Concerning young Dain you are right, I would let the young and the old Dain switch passive abbilities, when you get the ring, because it´s much more fitting to the lore:
Young Dain was the one who made his soldiers advance by forced marches in full armour the whole way from Iron Hills to Erebor to atack an army of Men and Elves.
He doesn´t seem to me like the thoughtfull defender he was in his later days.
I guess the Battle of the Five Army, where he fought first time side by side with Men and Elves, and the death of his relative Thorin really changed something in his character. Additional young Dain already is a more offensive fighter in the defensive faction beeing the only mounted Dwarven hero...

Besides that I don´t find the current ring-function very ideal concerning gameplay. What use do I have for a ring-function that strengthens me on a point, where I am already unbeatable? In my oppinion it´s far more attractive to compensate the weaknesses of the subfaction.
For Ered Luin this is already somehow working, it only needs to become more elaborated than at the moment and getting a bit darker, because of the corruption of the ring. For Erebor your defensive Durin-concept also fits in nicely. Only Iron Hill-Dain drags somehow behind.

I hope my ideas on that became a bit more precise  :P
Could someone post the exact ring-abbility-set of Thorin and young Dain, than we could talk about them in more detail. I can´t look them up at the m,oment for reasons I already explained...

I will also think about an abbility-set for Hannar and would eventually post them here if I find something fitting besides Mastersmith;)
Yours sincerely
Isildurs Bane
Ersatz für die Elchreiter:
https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,35514.0.html

Berittene Schützen für Imladris:
https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,35515.0.html


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Ectheldir

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Re: Durin's fate in the Edain Mod
« Antwort #97 am: 24. Jul 2017, 12:22 »
Ring-abilities:

Dain:

Level 1: Durin's Heir - Due to the whisperings of the Ring, Dain's pride rises to unfathomable heights, and he declares himself the seventh and last reincarnation of Durin. He puts on mithril mail, gains improved stats and inflicts area damage. The Ring fuels Dain's peculiar nature and makes him upgrade his defense into a bastion: allied buildings in a wide radius gain +50% armor and damage and +25% production speed. The Hall of Warriors now trains units instantly. If there is no dwarven building in the vicinity of Dain, he loses 50% armor, damage, and speed. (Passive ability)

Level 3: Mount/Dismount - King Dain is able to mount his war boar. Left click to mount/dismount.

Level 7: Defend Durin's Realm! - Dain orders the defence of Durin's realm. For 30 seconds, every allied building and all dwarven units close to a dwarven building are invincible.

Level 10: Bastion of the Dwarven Realms - Dain orders the construction of a giant fortress which becomes a home for units of all the dwarven realms and fights back against enemies. You may only have one Bastion in the game at the same time.

Durin's Forge - Dain calls up flames from the deep in a medium area around him, setting on fire all enemy units caught in his spell.

Thorin

Level 1: Kili and Fili - Thorin permanently summons his nephews Kili and Fili to fight by his side. The dwarves will be summoned at the same level as Thorin.

Level 1: Durin's Heir - The pride of Thorin grows immeasurably through the whisperings of the ring. He declares himself as seventh and last reincarnation of Durin. He puts on Mithril Mail, obtains improved values and splash damage. The ring feeds Thorin's desire to gather all treasure of the dwarves. Allied resource buildings produce 75% less; instead, Thorin and allied units loot huge amounts of resources from fallen foes. (Passive ability)

Fire of Durin's Forge - Thorin calls up flames from the deep in a medium area around him, setting on fire all enemy units caught in his spell. 

The Immortal - All allied units on the entire map become invulnerable for 10 seconds.

Level 10: Gleam of the Arkenstone - The sight of the Arkenstone kindles the hope in the hearts of Thorin's dwarves and inspires fear in the hearts of his adversaries. Nearby enemy units are temporarily stunned, while allied units temporarily gain +50% damage.


Edain-wiki is your friend :P

Isildurs Fluch

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Re: Durin's fate in the Edain Mod
« Antwort #98 am: 25. Jul 2017, 09:49 »
I totally forgot, that this usefull Wiki even exists... :D

I´d like to present my ideas for the ring-functions of Dain and Thorin. Concerning Hannar I will wait for Aule, as the whole creation of this character was his and his friends idea. This will be a longer post and most of it is not about Durin or the ring-function at all, but it´s aim is to complete the topic by focussing on Dain and Thorin, thus the ring-heroes of the other subfactions.
My hope is to integrate it into the other concept to get a whole new ring-system for the Dwarves with alot more authenticity.
If it´s in the wrong place you can move it to another thread or write me and I will do it myself.

Standart abbilities of the two different versions of Dain:
I now re-read not only the ring-concepts of Dain and Thorin, but also their normal abbilities and it came to my mind, that Dains character-developement as described in the books (and in parts seen in the movie) is, as I alredy mentioned, somehow contradicted.


Based on this thoughts, I would switch two abbilities between the versions of Dain:
  • Iron Hill-Dain get´s Baruk Khazad! and Erebor-Dain get´s Lord of the Iron Hills renaming it to King under the Mountain. This abbility is in a way the reverse of Thorins abbility with the same name which nicely points out the differences in character.
  • Vendetta is transferred to the ring-function, while his normal version get´s Forced marches, which increases the speed of foot soldiers on the map for 30 second, but making them in exchange after that a bit slower for 10 seconds. Defend the Halls! is transferred to Erebor-Dain, who indeed died defending his halls and his friend.
  • I also thought about switching Meeting of the Dwaven Realms and Forces of the Dwaven Kingdoms but didn´t find it necessary, in the end, they are kind a similar in my oppinion.

I´m aware, of the fact, that the Edain-team didn´t chose the abbility-sets for no reason and it all fits in the overall theme of precise specialisation for the different Dwarven subfactions, but I don´t see it in this particular case as a very big problem:
Dain is a late-game hero, so when he appears on the battlefield the player normally would have the opportunity to buy upgrades, to cope with the realm-specific weaknesses.
Besides that all the effects are either temporarely or only affecting nearby troops, so the over all theme of the subfaction would still remain.
I even find it more interesting to have the opportunity to somehow change tactics using Dains abbilities.
Just strengthening your already existing specialisation seems somehow boring.
Futhermore I decided to create those two ring-heroes competely new and give them entirely individual abbility-sets leaving Mahals Forge for DurinVII.

Thus DurinVII as a more defense based hero would fit in much better next to those two and all three of them have different assignments.

Additional it doesn´t make much sense for me to have a corrupted ring-hero with defensive strategy, because this would in the end compromise Saurons cause. Erebor-Dain or rather Durin VII wouldn´t have this problem, because there is no corruption of the ring involved. All his strength comes from himself.

Dain Ironfoot as ring-bearer
As mentioned before, the ring takes advantage of young Dains pugnacious nature making him even more proactive and impulsive and therefore leaving his home undefended.
Level 1: Blood lust (passive)
Due to the whisperings of the ring Dain becomes paranoid seeing foes everywhere and wanting to destroy them immediatly. He develops an Addiction for fighting and starts to enjoy brute force more and more. He completly forgets to reflect his actions and leaves his home undefended.
Dain puts on a Mithril mail, gains improved stats and inflicts area damage. He now uses the Baruk Khazad-abillity automatically in regular intervals, when in fight. This abbility provides stronger boni with each war cry and his own atack damage increases, too. All buildings gain passivly 25% less armour, so the player is forced to rely on his atack.

Level 3: Mount/Dismount

Level 5: Get ready for War! (passive)
Dain wants to focus on war and expansion, not on innovation.
All Hall of Warriors and Forge Works recruit much faster, but upgrades are more expensive.

Level 7: Vendetta
Dain scrapes all his forces together to take vengance for all the losses the Dwarves have suffered and smash his hated foes. Only a few are left at home for mining or other works.
For one minute all the Dwarven units on the map move faster and cause higher atack damage. In the meantime the ressource-production decreases.

Level 10: Meeting of the Dwarven realms


Thorin Oakenshield as ring-bearer
Level 1: Fili and Kili

Level 1: Dragon Illness (passive)
The ring takes advantage of Thorins desire to restore the wealth of past ages. He now is willing to risk everything even the lives of his friends to enlarge his treasure, tolerating no opposition and coqardliness at all. Mining and conquest of new ground are his goals and he is ready to fight anybody who stands in his way. His closest friends are shocked and lose their courage.
Thorin puts on mithril mail, gains improved stats and inflicts area damage. All mines and stoneworker produce more ressources, units gain more ressources per kill, but all the other heroes lose armour.

Level 3: Dwarves first! (passive)
Thorins despisement for everything "undwarvisch" deepens more and more and he focusses on taking advantage of his allies, only selling Dwarvish goods for horrendous prices but still expecting unquestioned loyalty. His allies feel cut out and grant unwillingly only the absolute minimum of support.
Costs for Upgrades of buildings and troops are reduced extensively, but Laketown-Units take a lot longer to recruit.

Level 6: Defend our Treasure!
For a short time Thorin and all troops next to Ressource-producing buildings are invulnerable.

Level 10: Gleam of the Arkenstone

As you can see those two mechanics play out completely different: Young Dain aims for a fast definitive strike, while Thorin wants to win the fight through a superior economy.
Each specialisation has also it´s downside, as it should be common for most "good ring-heroes" and you might have noticed, that in a way Thorin and Dain are opposite to each other, because their downside weakens the other tactic.

Old Dain (Erebor) as written earlier refuses the ring and summons Hannar instead as the ring-bearer. Therefore he isn´t changed at all, only his passive abbility is improved a bit:
Level 1: The incorruptible Ally (passive)
Dain became wise and highly respected not only from his kin, but also from Men and Elves. His Dwarven stubborness mixed with the knowledge he got from Gandalf about the true nature of the enemy (and maybe the Dwarven rings), made him immune to the influence of the ring instead giving it of and leaving this matter to his grandson Hannar.
Not only the hero, but also nearby allied buildings provide increased armour and fear-resistance. Additional Dale-units are recruited faster and/or cheaper.

Sadly I´m competely inexperienced concerning picture-processing programms and therefore not able to upvalue my concept through suitable palantir-pictures for the abbilities. So if anyone who likes the concept and takes delight in this kind of work would help me with that I would be very thankfull and mention his work of course in the concept... ;)

I hope you like my ideas and am open for critique. I know I changed the system radically, but found this necessary to make it more interesting.
Yours sincerely
Isildurs Bane

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« Letzte Änderung: 1. Aug 2017, 10:19 von Isildurs Fluch »
Ersatz für die Elchreiter:
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Vielen Dank an CMG für Avatar und Banner...

AulëTheSmith

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Re: Durin's fate in the Edain Mod
« Antwort #99 am: 27. Jul 2017, 00:25 »
Hi Isildur :)
As i just wrote, the considerations you made about the two normal forms of Dain and King Dain make sense, more than the current one. King Dain fits more as defensive, it is the chieftain of a big (and stable) realm, and he defended it against the hordes of Mordor until death.
Lord Dain Ironfoot is instead the Lord of iron hills, a smaller realm, and he's more aggressive and inclined to war.

The point is: in the past (from patch 4.1 to 4.3) the abilites were reversed, in the same way you proposed (King Dain defensive, Lord dain offensive). Then from patch 4.4 on the team exchanged the abilities between the two Dain, because of the new ring system and also ,as we discussed, to emphasize the peculiarity of each realm  through the respective leaders. Said that, i don't think they have the intention to switch the two character again for the second time  [ugly]. As i understand, the so called "Dain dilemma", usually mentioned in the forum, is exactly this "dribble" of the skills between Young and old Dain, along with the defensive obsession of Lord Dain Ring hero  [ugly].
As for Thorin, your skillset is good because it ecompass not only the greed, but also the stubborness and blindess of Thorin, who is so sick for gold to forget who is his enemy and who is his friend (well reflected when you cannot recruit lake town unit and in the heroes discouragement ;)).

Isildurs Fluch

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Re: Durin's fate in the Edain Mod
« Antwort #100 am: 27. Jul 2017, 11:23 »
First of all thanks for the compliment for Thorins skillset  :)
BotfA definitly gave me a perfect inspiration, as they showed this character change in a very drastic almost overdone manner. Maybe he could also get an alterd voice set only coming from this scenes of the movie  ;)

Concerning Dain:
It wouldn´t be the first time, that the team revoked a recent change.
If the reasons are good enough,  the change back to the former distribution of aspects between the two Dains is inbedded in a different ring system and doesn´t destroy the overall focus of the subfaction, I doubt they would fundamentally oppose the change back to the roots.
In my oppinion one of the ring-heroes either the Iron Hill Dain or DurinVII must have an aggressive focus, they shouldn´t be all defensive. Young Dain makes the most sense for me and as I said, I don´t see big problems concerning gameplay.

Maybe a statement of one of the team members would help in this matter, because I can understand, that you hesitate to implement something in the concept that has a high possibility of refusal.
After all we could integrate my ideas for Dain and Thorin only in the long, ideal concept, not in the short pragmatic one to ensure the focus remains on the core which is the implementation of DurinVII as ring-hero for Erebor.

When I understood you right, you already said there will be two alternative concepts one short and pragmatic, the other extensive and ideal as we would see it to increase the possibility of implementation...
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Berittene Schützen für Imladris:
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Vielen Dank an CMG für Avatar und Banner...

AulëTheSmith

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Re: Durin's fate in the Edain Mod
« Antwort #101 am: 27. Jul 2017, 13:13 »
When I understood you right, you already said there will be two alternative concepts one short and pragmatic, the other extensive and ideal as we would see it to increase the possibility of implementation...

Yes that was my initial idea, but i think that, after some discussion with dk, we have almost reach a more balanced and compact version of the skillset of Durin VII, such as now his escalation to power il slower (i've started following your suggestion about balance) ;).
I decided to keep the idea of balance and insert it in the concept as it is, keeping the rest more or less the same,because this way the work is compact and less complex. Also, the story of Hannar is rather a background to insert the character in Erebor than a name to use in game. I would like myself to developed more about him (as i just wrote before), but i realized that if we summon him as Durin VII directly, we keep that sort of "mysterius aura" around him, such as it is in the lore ;). All of these considerations should make the work easier to implement and more "soft" so to say ;). Anyway i have to finish it, and evetually refine some points.

In my opinion one of the ring-heroes either the Iron Hill Dain or DurinVII must have an aggressive focus, they shouldn´t be all defensive. Young Dain makes the most sense for me and as I said, I don´t see big problems concerning gameplay.
Maybe a statement of one of the team members would help in this matter, because I can understand, that you hesitate to implement something in the concept that has a high possibility of refusal.
Agree. The aggressive style lacks a bit in the dwarves.

After all we could integrate my ideas for Dain and Thorin only in the long, ideal concept, not in the short pragmatic one to ensure the focus remains on the core which is the implementation of DurinVII as ring-hero for Erebor.
I will create after the new thread, but i would focus it on Durin VII only. Not because i have something against you or your concept (i like also the Thorin ideas), be it clear  [ugly]. Only because the primal objective of the concept is the return of Durin in the most canonic way, and i wouldn't mix too much arguments in the same thread, especially if you want to gather opinions  ;).
Said that, if you need help about anything (you mentioned the palantirs and graphics for example) just ask me  ;)

Isildurs Fluch

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Re: Durin's fate in the Edain Mod
« Antwort #102 am: 27. Jul 2017, 18:04 »
I will create after the new thread, but i would focus it on Durin VII only. Not because i have something against you or your concept (i like also the Thorin ideas), be it clear  [ugly]. Only because the primal objective of the concept is the return of Durin in the most canonic way, and i wouldn't mix too much arguments in the same thread, especially if you want to gather opinions  ;).
Said that, if you need help about anything (you mentioned the palantirs and graphics for example) just ask me  ;)
That´s totally understandable for me. Letting Durin return should be the primary goal of the concept and anything else will draw to much attention to other aspects of the concept. The only problem is, that my concept is pretty much build up around yours, so it can´t really stand alone...
So I will probably just wait for your concept to pass and than reenter the discussion with my addition to your idea in a seperate thread. Am I allowed to integrate my concept into yours in the German translation I wanted to create?
Some help with the graphics for the abbilitys would be awesome  (**)
Yours sincerely
Isildurs Bane
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Walküre

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Re: Durin's fate in the Edain Mod
« Antwort #103 am: 27. Jul 2017, 21:14 »
I wouldn't be concerned about the opinion of the Edain Team on the matter. Getting to know their thoughts could be useful indeed, but that is quite unlikely to happen, unless the concept has truly reached a definitive form. The version which is to be submitted to the general judgement. Developers are more likely to discuss things internally, leaving the burden of carrying on the debate to moderators. That is my prime duty :)

As for the translation, I think it would be better if you found a general design with which you both agree, so that the German translation is genuinely a loyal transposition from the English forum; surely, additions may always be added, as long as all parties of the two Communities are aware of them. Developing two different discussions at the same time might be quite strenuous. You should try to manage things as I did with the concepts of Galadriel and Narya. I'm always at disposal, should you need help.

kingsjewel

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Re: Durin's fate in the Edain Mod
« Antwort #104 am: 28. Jul 2017, 21:04 »
Isildurs Fluch, your new ring hero concept is simply wonderful (especially Thorin's) . I just love it.
There are fantastic ideas in this post, I hope we will see them once in game too :)
I re-registered to write this answer :D